Homework help!

Sir Goulum · 10-06-2002, 02:58 PM

I need some help with some homework. Where can I find a periodic table that, somewhere, shows the atomic structure of the Elements? Thanks!

Bardan the Slayer · 10-06-2002, 03:13 PM

Does this site help? It needs flash, though.

http://www.chemsoc.org/viselements/p...rtable_fla.htm

Sir Goulum · 10-06-2002, 03:19 PM

No...it needs to have a picture of the atomic structure for the elements that I can draw. Much like this, but this is completely wrong. (My teacher said so)

WillowIX · 10-06-2002, 05:32 PM

Yes that is wrong. Let´s see if I can help you out some. You know the different designations of the electron configuration right? (K, L, M, N). K can only contain two atoms and fill up first. L can contain 8 electrons. After that the difficulty starts. You´re not studying quantum mechanics are you? I´ll just skip the theory for that lol [img]smile.gif[/img] . M can actually contain 18 electrons. BUT first it contains 8, then N gets 2 electrons. After that you can start to fill M again up to 18 BEFORE you add to N (this is called the aufbau model. So your example would be

^-

[ 10-06-2002, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: WillowIX ]

Sir Goulum · 10-06-2002, 05:36 PM

We just call the diff things levels, but ok...So it goes 2, 8, 18, 8?

EDIT- I'm only in Grade 9! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 10-06-2002, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Sir Goulum ]

LennonCook · 10-06-2002, 05:42 PM

It does have Chemical Information

Click the element you want, and scroll down to "Chemical Data", click HTML.
Under Physical Information, it gives you what you need to know:
Atomic Number 6
Relative Atomic Mass (12C=12.000) 12.011

That is from Carbon.

The atomic number relates to the number of electrons and protons both, the Relative Atomic Mass is the Number of Protons plus the number of Neutrons.

That gives you enough information to draw the nucleus, in this case there are 6 protons and 6.011 Neutrons, although 6 Neutrons would generally be accepted at the level you`re doing. [img]smile.gif[/img]

The only complication is the electron shells: just remember the pattern 2,8,8,16 ; that should be as far as you need go [img]smile.gif[/img]

EDIT: Ok, to quote from my science text book:
The total number of electrons allowed in a shell n and all those before it, is 2n².

Thus,

Shell Number (n) ..... Maximum Number of Electrons (2n²).
1 ..... 2
2 ..... 8
3 ..... 18
4 ..... 32
etc etc

Here the book starts getting very... wierd.
It gives a diagram of a Chlorine atom, with 2,8,7.

But from the table it gives, it should be 2,6,8 ... I have always learned 2,8,8,16; so er... ignore 2n²

[ 10-06-2002, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: LennonCook ]

andrewas · 10-06-2002, 05:48 PM

Willow has it right. It does get even more complex in a couple years though.

Each electron shell consists of electron orbitals, each electron orbital contains up to two electrons. 1 "p" type, 3 "d" types and 5 "f" types if memory serves. Which is probably dosent, and theres one after "f" which totaly escapes me. The designation isnt important anyway, the principle is.

Now, you know that shells have different energy levels, right?

Well, the orbitals within those shells also have slightly varying energy levels, and in the higher shells p type orbitals have less energy than the f types from the previous level. Since its, strictly speaking, orbitals and not shells that fill up in order of energy level, the "p" type in shell "M" fills up before the "f" types in shell "N"

Now are you glad that you dont have to study the theory behind all this for another couple years? Anyway, I usualy find it easier to remember stuff like this by learning the reason why, so maybe some of this will be useful.

Sir Goulum · 10-06-2002, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LennonCook:
The only complication is the electron shells: just remember the pattern 2,8,8,16 ; that should be as far as you need go [img]smile.gif[/img]

16?! But Willow said it was 18!!! Oh I'm all confused! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

WillowIX · 10-06-2002, 05:50 PM

Yes Sir G that would be correct (not your post right above this one, but further up [img]smile.gif[/img] ). I found this for you, it has the number of electrons in ech "level" listed [img]smile.gif[/img] http://www.chemicalelements.com/show...onconfig.html.

Quote:

Originally posted by LennonCook:
The only complication is the electron shells: just remember the pattern 2,8,8,16 ; that should be as far as you need go

You can´t think that way. The number of electrons in each level would be 2,8,18,32,32 etc. How they fill up is completly different... It´d be like this: 2,8,8,2-->2,8,9,2-->2,8,10,2.....-->2,8,18,3...-->2,8,18,8-->2,8,18,8,1. It´s all a matter of energy [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 10-06-2002, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: WillowIX ]

andrewas · 10-06-2002, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LennonCook:

The only complication is the electron shells: just remember the pattern 2,8,8,16 ; that should be as far as you need go [img]smile.gif[/img]

And just what element fills N to 16 before filling M to 18?

Actualy, IIRC, N can hold up to 32, but thats getting may beyond anything I officialy studied.

10-06-2002, 03:13 PM	#2
Bardan the Slayer Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: August 16, 2002 Location: Newcastle, England Age: 46 Posts: 699	Does this site help? It needs flash, though. http://www.chemsoc.org/viselements/p...rtable_fla.htm __________________ <br />[url]\"http://www.the-silver-river.com\" target=\"_blank\">Admin and Co-Owner of The Silver River!</a><br />[url]\"http://www.the-silver-river.com/Photo%20Album/Reeka.html\" target=\"_blank\">SMNOOOOOOCH!</a> You know who it\'s meant for <img border=\"0\" title=\"\" alt=\"[Wink]\" src=\"wink.gif\" />

10-06-2002, 05:32 PM	#4
WillowIX Apophis Join Date: July 10, 2001 Location: By a big blue lake, Canada Age: 51 Posts: 4,628	Yes that is wrong. Let´s see if I can help you out some. You know the different designations of the electron configuration right? (K, L, M, N). K can only contain two atoms and fill up first. L can contain 8 electrons. After that the difficulty starts. You´re not studying quantum mechanics are you? I´ll just skip the theory for that lol [img]smile.gif[/img] . M can actually contain 18 electrons. BUT first it contains 8, then N gets 2 electrons. After that you can start to fill M again up to 18 BEFORE you add to N (this is called the aufbau model. So your example would be []K-->2e^-[]L-->8e^-[]M-->18e^-[]N-->8e^-[/list]Did that clear things up? [ 10-06-2002, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: WillowIX ] __________________ Confuzzled by nature.

10-06-2002, 05:48 PM	#7
andrewas Harper Join Date: October 2, 2001 Location: Aberdeen, Scotland Age: 43 Posts: 4,774	Willow has it right. It does get even more complex in a couple years though. Each electron shell consists of electron orbitals, each electron orbital contains up to two electrons. 1 "p" type, 3 "d" types and 5 "f" types if memory serves. Which is probably dosent, and theres one after "f" which totaly escapes me. The designation isnt important anyway, the principle is. Now, you know that shells have different energy levels, right? Well, the orbitals within those shells also have slightly varying energy levels, and in the higher shells p type orbitals have less energy than the f types from the previous level. Since its, strictly speaking, orbitals and not shells that fill up in order of energy level, the "p" type in shell "M" fills up before the "f" types in shell "N" Now are you glad that you dont have to study the theory behind all this for another couple years? Anyway, I usualy find it easier to remember stuff like this by learning the reason why, so maybe some of this will be useful. __________________ [img]\"http://www.sighost.us/members/Zvijer/andrewas.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

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10-06-2002, 02:58 PM	#1
Sir Goulum John Locke Join Date: February 7, 2002 Location: Edmonton, Canada Age: 36 Posts: 8,985	I need some help with some homework. Where can I find a periodic table that, somewhere, shows the atomic structure of the Elements? Thanks!

10-06-2002, 03:19 PM	#3
Sir Goulum John Locke Join Date: February 7, 2002 Location: Edmonton, Canada Age: 36 Posts: 8,985	No...it needs to have a picture of the atomic structure for the elements that I can draw. Much like this, but this is completely wrong. (My teacher said so)

10-06-2002, 05:36 PM	#5
Sir Goulum John Locke Join Date: February 7, 2002 Location: Edmonton, Canada Age: 36 Posts: 8,985	We just call the diff things levels, but ok...So it goes 2, 8, 18, 8? EDIT- I'm only in Grade 9! [img]tongue.gif[/img] [ 10-06-2002, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Sir Goulum ]

10-06-2002, 05:42 PM	#6
LennonCook Jack Burton Join Date: November 10, 2001 Location: Bathurst & Orange, in constant flux Age: 38 Posts: 5,452	It does have Chemical Information Click the element you want, and scroll down to "Chemical Data", click HTML. Under Physical Information, it gives you what you need to know: Atomic Number 6 Relative Atomic Mass (12C=12.000) 12.011 That is from Carbon. The atomic number relates to the number of electrons and protons both, the Relative Atomic Mass is the Number of Protons plus the number of Neutrons. That gives you enough information to draw the nucleus, in this case there are 6 protons and 6.011 Neutrons, although 6 Neutrons would generally be accepted at the level you`re doing. [img]smile.gif[/img] The only complication is the electron shells: just remember the pattern 2,8,8,16 ; that should be as far as you need go [img]smile.gif[/img] EDIT: Ok, to quote from my science text book: The total number of electrons allowed in a shell n and all those before it, is 2n². Thus, Shell Number (n) ..... Maximum Number of Electrons (2n²). 1 ..... 2 2 ..... 8 3 ..... 18 4 ..... 32 etc etc Here the book starts getting very... wierd. It gives a diagram of a Chlorine atom, with 2,8,7. But from the table it gives, it should be 2,6,8 ... I have always learned 2,8,8,16; so er... ignore 2n² [ 10-06-2002, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: LennonCook ]

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