What I don't get

[The Lilarcor]

I don't get something here, Why do the majority of the Arab Nations hate us?
Is there any other reason besides our current war and that we are allied with Isreal? Is it because we are a democracy, is it pent up emotions from the crusades? Is it from people like Bin Laden and hypnotism and what not? Personally, I think that if we are going to be treated like the bad guy when we are the good guy, we should go to more of a form of isolationism, not total, just less world involvement (besides the humaniterean aid). but though that would be nice, its probably impossible currently.

[Wutang]

Hmmm good question. I often ask myself that. here are my reasons:

1)US unwavering support for Israel.

2)US is a world power. Arab states both envy and despise that.

3)Their god is better than our god. (I think it's true to say that all muslims are at best apprehensive towards non-muslims. This goes back probably thousands of years)

4)Israel (oh I said that already)

5)Horrible distribution of wealth in their own societies

6)Women have freedom in the US. The zealots want women to be 2nd class citizens (i.e. not showing their faces in public, nor driving, nor going to soccer games etc.)

7)Israel (dang I said that again)

8)No political freedoms within their own countries(except in anti US rallies)

well there it is in a nutshell

All I can say is that if the Israeli/Palestinian/Arab issue was resolved peacefully back in 1948, we wouldn't have the problems today and Iraq would be a lot different too probably.

Bottom line:

The US can be faulted for a lot of things but the Arab states have to share a majority of the blame too for the current crisis.

[ 03-25-2003, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: Wutang ]

[MarkyMark]

This is a source of irritation to many Europeans and others, why America doesn't understand why a lot of the rest of the world doesn't hold them in high esteem. Here are my reasons for why I think this is the case.

1- If you are an ally of America you can do anything you want and suffer no consequences. ie Israel, who has flouted literally dozens of UN resolutions and suffered no repercussions because of it.
Contrast this with an Arab country Iraq, who Bush attacks for guess what?, yes not adhering to UN resolutions.
This is seen as most of the rest of the world as unfair.

2- America knows best. A lot of the rest of the world doesn't see what gives the US the right to decide what is best for the rest of us, ie who governs who in Iraq is one example. Pushing your version of freedom down another nations throat will not necessarily make you popular.

I don't think it's anything to with the crusades as it would be an anti British/ French / German feeling as that's where the crusaders came from. Plus, don't forget it's not only muslim countries and people who feel this way about the US.

[ 03-25-2003, 04:58 AM: Message edited by: MarkyMark ]

[Thoran]

Comparing Israel to Iraq is like comparing WW2 Britain to Germany prior to and including the Battle of Britain.

Germany was an agressor who threatened and ultimately attacked surrounding nations. It built up it's army and we all watched it happen while wringing our pacifist hands.

Iraq is an agressor who has and does threaten and has attacked surrounding nations. It's built up it's army and until last week we were all watching it happen again while wringing our pacifist hands.

Britain was under attack from other nations and acted to protect itself. It's military was built up in order to protect it's borders and repulse enemy attacks.

Israel has been attacked by other nations and ALL occupied lands were taken in actions that were initiated by Arab nations. It has always acted to protect itself. It's military has been built up in order to protect it's borders and repulse enemy attacks.

The US is not hated by the majority of the world, in my meanderings across Europe and the Middle East I got overwhelmingly positive feedback from the "average Joe" in those countries. I'm not saying that people agree with US actions but the vast majority have understood that the US is a force for stability in the world. This just happens to be an instance where many people disagree with our approach to solving a problem (including within this country), it does not mean that the world hates us.

[Moiraine]

Originally posted by The Lilarcor: I don't get something here, Why do the majority of the Arab Nations hate us? Is there any other reason besides our current war and that we are allied with Isreal? Is it because we are a democracy, is it pent up emotions from the crusades? Is it from people like Bin Laden and hypnotism and what not? Personally, I think that if we are going to be treated like the bad guy when we are the good guy, we should go to more of a form of isolationism, not total, just less world involvement (besides the humaniterean aid). but though that would be nice, its probably impossible currently.

I think saying that speaking of hate is, except for some fanatics, a tad exaggerated.

I believe the core reason you are looking for is right under your nose - I mean in your own post. "I think that if we are going to be treated like the bad guy when we are the good guy ...", you say. Have you ever considered that there may possibly be different ways to be good guys, that yours is not necessarily the only and best one - best for you maybe, but not necessarily best for everyone - , and that nobody likes having other people's ways of life rammed down their throats ?

[ 03-25-2003, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: Moiraine ]

[Seraph]

Israel has been attacked by other nations and ALL occupied lands were taken in actions that were initiated by Arab nations.

Didn't Israel start the June 1967 war by attacking Egypt? Isn't that the war where Israel captured Sinai, the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and the Golan Heights?

[Masklinn]

if we are going to be treated like the bad guy when we are the good guy

I totally agree with what Moiraine said on that matter.

For some of them you are indeed the bad guy, the devil, for some of the reasons stated above and for cultural differences. It's a matter of perspective.

You think you are the good guy, but are you really ? What is true for you is maybe not for your neighbor.

Anyway, I don't think there are such things as bad and good guys. We're not in a movie, things are so much more complicated.

Stop manicheism, it's bad for your health.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Seraph: Quote: Israel has been attacked by other nations and ALL occupied lands were taken in actions that were initiated by Arab nations.

Didn't Israel start the June 1967 war by attacking Egypt? Isn't that the war where Israel captured Sinai, the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and the Golan Heights?[/QUOTE]Yeah. Seeing the armies of Egypt and her muslim allies surrounding them on all sides with Egypt threatening war every day, Israel showed an amazing amount of chutzpah and struck first, setting the tone for all of Israel's actions and reactions to Muslim violence in years to follow. While I do not support all of Sharon's antics, I certainly applaud Israel for 1967: one of the most brilliant military moves in modern history.

Oh, and why do Arab countries hate the US?

One overwhelming reason: Everywhere everyplace everytime the "have nots" hate the "haves." It's that simple.

[Thoran]

Egypt had blockaded the straits of Tiran, which has been argued to be the primary causal factor.

They had also massed troops along the Israeli border and signed treaties with Jordan and Syria that prompted those countries to do the same. Isreal responded by massing it's forces to repulse an attack, but the Isreali military is primarily reserves, which means they can't stay mobilised indefinitely. Something had to give.

At the same time the Arab world was publishing stuff like this:


As of today, there no longer exists an international emergency force to protect Israel. We shall exercise patience no more. We shall not complain any more to the UN about Israel. The sole method we shall apply against Israel is total war, which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence


and this...


Our forces are now entirely ready not only to repulse the aggression, but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united....I, as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation


So while I agree it's agruable who started this war, my take is that Isreal was responding to overwhelming agression on every border. They were put in a position where the Arab nations could wait out the Isreali military (which couldn't stay mobilized indefinitely). Your mileage may vary (Isreali/Arab relations are an ugly business).

[ 03-25-2003, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Thoran ]

[Donut]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Oh, and why do Arab countries hate the US? One overwhelming reason: Everywhere everyplace everytime the "have nots" hate the "haves." It's that simple.

And as long as you continue to believe this you will never solve the problem.