On Cowardice

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

The term "coward" is being thrown around a lot in regards to the "enemy" in Afghanistan.

I am curious as to why so many of you seem fond of using that term. It doesn't strike me as any more accurate in regards to the terrorists than it does if applied to our own forces, with our leaders in hiding in times of danger and our long historical tendency to prefer relatively safe air strikes to cut down on American casualties.

How would you define "cowardice" and what do you gain by continually using that term in regards to the terrorists?

The way some of you seem to be using it, the terrorists are "cowards" if take cover from our bombs and missles instead of standing out in the open to be easily blown up by us.

[This message has been edited by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown (edited 10-08-2001).]

what the terrorists did was not good or right, but it was brave to give ones life for a cause. There is nothing cowardly about this act as it is the ultimate sacrifice for your cause, Whether martyrs and heroes or evil simply depends on your view point. What they did was very clever and carefully planned as they could not hope to prevail against the us militery so they simply went for the most vulnerable target.

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In nomine Imperatis, guard our armour and our gaze; lubricate our projectile weapons that they do not jam. Bless and brighten the beams of our lasers; fiat lux in tenebris.

[Istaron]

Everyone who dare not face 10 tanks or more armed with just a half-rotten log is a coward.

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We call him Bobby Corwen

[Dreamer128]

Those men left a family behind, never have there been braver men then these Afgans. Too bad they are fighting on the wrong side and there leader is an dangerous(though very smart) maniac!

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Those who watch their backs meet death from the front- Dreamer128 Demonslayer of the OHF.

Paladin of the order, first bodyguard of Lady Lioness and defender of Castle Kerhelm

[Neb]

Originally posted by Dreamer128: Those men left a family behind, never have there been braver men then these Afgans. Too bad they are fighting on the wrong side and there leader is an dangerous(though very smart) maniac!

Imagine if we had such men defending the West, Democracy and Freedom.

[Dreamer128]

Originally posted by Neb: Imagine if we had such men defending the West, Democracy and Freedom.

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Our troops dont get brainwashed and prommised a high place in heaven if they die in battle.



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Those who watch their backs meet death from the front- Dreamer128 Demonslayer of the OHF.

Paladin of the order, first bodyguard of Lady Lioness and defender of Castle Kerhelm

[Neb]

Originally posted by Dreamer128: Our troops dont get brainwashed and prommised a high place in heaven if they die in battle.

Yes, there is that, but imagine it anyway, a group of men and women who were completely and fanatically dedicated to protecting The West, Democracy and Freedom, we would have a force to stand up to their religious fanatics, a group of men and women who would willingly die to defend The West, Democracy and Freedom, it is an interesting thought.....


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"If Silence is golden, why does everyone talk so much?"

[This message has been edited by Neb (edited 10-08-2001).]

[Yorick]

I believe suicide is the cowards way out. I have had three people I know commit suicide, and have faced that bleak option down myself. It is braver to keep surviving.

To commit suicide and take others with you, for whatever reason, is a pathetic gesture that I pour derision and scorn on from the depths of my being.

Yes, from one angle the strength of human spirit in the highjackers is amazing, and highlights what effect such conviction we as humans can achieve. If only the result was a positive constructive end, rather than a negative destructive end.

Let me say this. It is easier to destroy than to build. It takes more energy, skill, time and ability to create than destroy. These men chose to give in to destruction. Give in to anothers will. Give in to seeking to achieve their ends through death than through other means.

Why are the US in Saudi Arabia? Why couldn't political, financial, religious pressure be exerted on the Saudi family - already Wahabi - to eject the US servicemen. Where is the strength of character necessary for compromise and dialogue? Acceptance of an imperfect situation? Pragmatism?

These men gave in to hate, they gave in to destruction, they gave in to violence. I have no hesitation in calling them cowardly. Terrorism is a cowardly act. It relies of hostage taking, of deception and subterfuge, on killing innocent civilians, babies and children. In the process of supporting terrorism and perpetuating repression, the Taliban have neglected to build any infrastructure in Afgahnistan.

Osama is the greatest coward of the lot. Calling on men to do what he himself will not do. Bush, Guliani and Cheney by comparison are cogs in a wheel. Rudi was there at the collapse. Bush has been to the scene. None of them are soldiers and would have no effectiveness in combat.

Osama by contrast is a soldier.

[This message has been edited by Yorick (edited 10-08-2001).]

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Yorick: Let me say this. It is easier to destroy than to build. It takes more energy, skill, time and ability to create than destroy. These men chose to give in to destruction. Give in to anothers will. Give in to seeking to achieve their ends through death than through other means. Where is the strength of character necessary for compromise and dialogue? Acceptance of an imperfect situation? Pragmatism? These men gave in to hate, they gave in to destruction, they gave in to violence. I have no hesitation in calling them cowardly. Osama is the greatest coward of the lot. Calling on men to do what he himself will not do. Bush, Guliani and Cheney by comparison are cogs in a wheel. Rudi was there at the collapse. Bush has been to the scene. None of them are soldiers and would have no effectiveness in combat.

Reading through your post I was struck by the double standards being displayed. So Bush can hide in safety, while he directs soldiers to do his bidding, and is not a coward, while Bin Laden is a coward for doing the same thing. Right.

I would ask you to reread the parts of your post I have quoted. Do your words not also apply to the United States?

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Yorick: [B]I believe suicide is the cowards way out. I have had three people I know commit suicide, and have faced that bleak option down myself. It is braver to keep surviving. B]

Um, why? I personally would never commit suicide, although like you, I have faced that option. It just isn't right for me, not at present, anyway. But I don't see the problem with people choosing when they are going to leave this life, for whatever reason.

Emotional and spiritual pain often passes, eventually. Some physical pain never does. Some people deal better with pain than others. There are many very sensitive souls in the world for whom the everyday events of life are just too much to cope with. Many are unsupported in their pain (or feel themselves to be unsupported, which is the same thing as far as they are concerned.) Some of these people choose to stop existing on the physical plane.

Certainly it seems a pity not to have the full range of experiences which life offers, but for some those experiences are full of horror, and they don't have the strength to continue. I don't call that cowardly. Everyone is different, for whatever reason. Not everyone has your strength and desire to live. I don't call that cowardly. Coward is a word with purely negative connotations. Not everyone has your advantages. Whatever happened to compassion??



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Most Ecstatic and Exotic Mistress of the Illuminati