15,589 species are in a perilous position

[shamrock_uk]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4013719.stm

[Dagoth Ur]

I wonder how many of those species would be in danger of extinction if the human race didn't exist. Species become extinct through the process of evolution; they didn't specify that all 15,000 of those species were endangered as a direct result of environmentally destructive behavior by humans or just as a natural process.

[Timber Loftis]

Yes, well, global biodiversity and the IUCN are important global efforts -- that happen to be moving along at a snail's pace, while more species die out every day. I guess my question to the Beeb is what have the UK and other European countries done to address this problem at home? How's your domestic endangered species protection? Seriously -- I'm only familiar with the US. But, it seems to me strong national laws come first, and then we jaw-jaw for 30 years to hammer out the international regime.

[Lucern]

If you're skeptical about this, ask yourself this: Given that many species are 'in a perilous position', what is the selective pressure (a la natural selection) that these creatures are failing to adapt to? We would need a global mechanism that has arisen fairly quickly, especially on an evolutionary timescale, to explain what we're seeing from the amount and types of creatures endangered. The most compelling answer is direct and indirect competition with humans as our population skyrockets and we compete for land (and we never lose). We also inadvertantly introduce invasive exotics, like kudzoo ("The plant that ate Georgia"), fire ants, and killer bees that are really good at taking advantage of an environment that has nothing to contain them.

There are many reasons species can go extinct, but as we look at the current mass extinction I don't see how we could be absolved as the primary cause.

Of course some species thrive where we thrive. Pigeons, rats, mice, cockroaches, ants, and raccoons will plague us for as long as we're here, and some, like large populations of rabbits in Australia or deer in North America are troubling problems that are entirely our fault.

[ 11-17-2004, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Lucern ]

[Azred]

This sort of article is always such a mixed bag of research, results, and conclusions.

"Alack! Alas! The poor defenseless critters are dying off at an alarming rate!" Well, more species became extinct before humans even existed than will become extinct in the next 100 years, so I think Mother Nature herself is a much worse culprit. Besides, shouldn't we be concentrating more on making sure that humans don't become extinct?

Climate change. Whatever. The climate is going to change whether we change our ways or not, so we would be wiser to adapt to how the climate is changing rather than trying to prevent climate change. Even if the polar caps all melted, that would just mean new locations for beachfront properties, more water for marine species, more fresh water for everyone, and differently-placed food-producing...and we'd get to find Atlantis down on Antarctica (yes, I just had to throw that in because of the Atlantis thread [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] ).
Don't get me wrong--I'd love for everyone to move to non-gasoline cars, more hydroelectic/geothermal/nuclear power plants (yes, nuclear power is safe), etc. but I am not so naive as to think that a few scientific studies will change anyone's daily life. No, something world-shattering would have to happen, but unfortunately such events are extremely rare.

[Timber Loftis]

Azred, I've NEVER seen such an uneducated post from you.

If you have the intellectual curiosity I think you do, please PM me, and I'll forward you my writings on alien species invasions and the relation of same to the WTO world trading regime to help you get up to speed on the topic. Just PM me, dude.

[Azred]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Azred, I've NEVER seen such an uneducated post from you.

My mistake. Apparently even I am not perfect. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

Upon reflection, I would have to agree that I dropped the ball on that last post. I was fighting with my internet connection and rather short-tempered by that time. Rather than edit it, I'll leave it there as a reminder to think first and post later. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Yes, TL, I'll PM later to get the links/info.