A society in denial

[Dreamer128]

In the Palestinian Occupied Territories, gays and lesbians face imprisonment, torture and even death. They cannot take refuge in Israel or seek asylum elsewhere. They are ignored or rejected by everyone, including their own families.
Homosexuality is illegal under Palestinian law. Gays and lesbians have been imprisoned because of their sexual orientation. Human rights groups report that the Palestinian Authority has also tortured homosexuals. No one knows the exact number because most victims are too ashamed to come forward and tell their stories. Even if they did, they would have no one to turn to seek redress.

Shame
Families often reject even their own children, says Bassem Eid, the director of the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group. If someone is convicted, says Eid, "the whole family will be in trouble, not only the gay himself. These families become very isolated. Society will punish the family even though they are completely innocent."

After serving their sentence, says Eid, gays and lesbians cannot return to their community. "These people live in fear. If they want to continue living, they have to move. Under the rule of the Palestinian Authority, these people cannot function in the occupied territories."

Collaboration smear
Gays do not only have to contend with stigma. Most Palestinians suspect them of collaborating with the Israeli occupation forces. But according to Shaol Gannon of Aguda, Israel's main gay and lesbian organisation, many of these young men have told him that they were being used by Palestinian intelligence agencies too. "The Palestinian Authority is trying to use them as agents against Hamas and the Jihad," Gannon says. "Those groups are trying to blackmail gays as well. It's a very unpleasant situation. Palestinian gays are caught in the middle."

According to Aguda, approximately 300 Palestinian gays have fled to Israel. Most are between 14 and 22 years of age. They tend to be unskilled and don't speak Hebrew or any other foreign language. Many arrive with just the clothes on their back, says Shaol Gannon. "It's not like they committed a crime in the Occupied Territories and are trying to escape punishment here in Israel. Their only crime is that they want to live."
Some Palestinian lesbians have also taken refuge in Israel, but they are far fewer in number. Women are more restricted than men in Palestinian society, and it is difficult for them to travel on their own. "We have had eight lesbians from the West Bank come to us," Gannon explains. "In one case it was two lesbians who were caught together and they escaped with only their underwear. The whole village and their families were running after them: 400 people armed with swords and knives wanting to kill them!"

Israel
Since the outbreak of the second Intifadah (the Palestinian uprising) and the wave of suicide bombings, Israel has imposed strict security measures, effectively barring almost all Palestinians from travelling to Israel. Palestinian gays and lesbians who manage to escape to Israel live in constant fear of deportation. During the six years that 22-year-old Rami has spent in Israel, he has been sent back to the occupied territories 15 times. Each time he has managed to return, but it is becoming increasingly difficult because of the security barrier Israel is building. Nowadays Rami rarely goes out.

Under international law, people who have well-founded fears of persecution cannot be sent back to their country of origin. The Israeli High Court has issued three rulings barring the authorities from deporting Palestinian gays and lesbians, says Gannon, but these rulings mean little in practice. "Any policeman can stop a Palestinian because he or she is an illegal alien and then deport them without trial."

Asylum hope
Human rights groups have raised the issue with the Israeli authorities on numerous occasions. Amnesty International, for instance, has succeeded in obtaining a residence permit for one Palestinian gay, but the permit is only temporary. Israel's gay and lesbian group has managed to convince the European Union to take in a dozen Palestinians. Aguda argues that if each EU country were to grant asylum to one person a year it would not only offer a future for these young people, it would also encourage the Israeli government to issue the remaining Palestinian gays and lesbians temporary residence permits.

Since most Palestinian gays and lesbians do not have passports, they cannot apply for asylum in a third country. "The embassies tell us to go to UNWRA, the United Nations agency which deals with Palestinian refugees," says Gannon. "When we apply to them, they say under international law and refugee conventions, Israel is responsible because it is the occupying power. According to Israel, if you are in conflict or dispute with another country that same refugee convention exempts you from granting people asylum or refugee status. So, again, we find these gays and lesbians falling between all chairs."

Future
Bassam Eid realises that the human rights of these Palestinians are being violated, but these abuses, he believes, pale in comparison to what's happening to the majority of Palestinians living in the Occupied Territories. "Palestinians are suffering because of so many reasons now. What is happening to homosexuals and lesbians is probably the smallest topic. If the situation will calm down a little bit, I believe this issue must be raised publicly."

The taboos are enormous, says Daniel Weishut of Amnesty International. "In the Arab world, homosexuality or any sexuality outside of marriage is a problem. It's not supposed to happen. So that means changing society's attitudes towards sexuality. That may happen, but it will take many years."

(Source: rnw.nl)

[ 08-11-2004, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Dreamer128 ]

[Yorick]

And people are taking issue with the US position on homosexual marriages.

Life can always be so much worse.

I don't see a solution. What is the answer? Demand Muslims reject their holy writings on the subject? I could be blaise and say Christians are working on a solutions by seeking to spread their message of grace, forgiveness of sins, and tolerant non-judgementalism. But I don't see the entire Islamic world rushing over anytime soon.

Just another piece of manure in a crappy situation.

[Magness]

What their status in other neighboring Arab countries? It's not like going to Isreal is their only option, is it? (Is it?) For that matter, why hang around the area at all? Why not head for Europe or the US?

I know that some might like to stay and fight the good fight for gay rights, but from the above article, it sounds like this issue is way, way down on the pally political radar. If these people was to live openly, I'd think that discretion would be the better part of valor and heading to Europe or the US would be the smart thing to do, assuming that they could afford to do so).

[Ilander]

Gosh...it sucks to be them....

I'm in pretty much the same opinion-boat as Yorick...not much can be done for them...gosh that's lousy...

[Seraph]

Originally posted by Dreamer128: Homosexuality is illegal under Palestinian law. [...] According to Aguda, approximately 300 Palestinian gays have fled to Israel. Most are between 14 and 22 years of age. They tend to be unskilled and don't speak Hebrew or any other foreign language. Many arrive with just the clothes on their back, says Shaol Gannon. "It's not like they committed a crime in the Occupied Territories and are trying to escape punishment here in Israel. Their only crime is that they want to live."

If they are fleeing because they are gay, and homosexuality is illegal under Palestinian law, doesn't it then follow that they have commited a crime?

[Yorick]

Sexuality is defined by action, not desire or intent.

You are only celibate if you don't have sex. All the wishing or desiring celibacy means nothing if the action isn't there. Same with adultery. Until you commit it, you are faithful, no matter what temptations may run through your head. So it is with homosexuality, or hetreosexuality, or bisexuality. No matter the desire, only the action is what defines you. Doesn't matter if you call yourself hetero, or if you wish you were, if you're having sex with men, you're by definition homosexual.

Therefore, you could have people fleeing Palestine, who are identifying with homosexuality, calling themselves homosexual, but have not YET commited a crime. The crime being the action.

Their crime is only wanting to live, as was said by the Israeli.

Cheers.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Ok, that's enough. I'm tired of that. Despite what you might say... or believe... or maybe even want to believe (There's an interesting thought), you're wrong when you say sexuality is defined by action. Does that mean that Roman Catholic priests are asexual? No. They're heterosexual, or maybe sometimes homosexual or bisexual. Are you going to tell me (for, what, the fourth time?) that now I'm limiting people by their sexuality? In case that's what you're thinking, let me state that I'm not. But sexuality is part of being human. Our desires shape who we are, like it or not. If my friend Dave up and got married to a woman and even had sex with her, what, a few times a year, he'd still be gay. Sorry. Homosexuals have heterosexual experiences the same way heterosexuals have homosexual experiences. Or are you still suggesting that everyone who's experimented or had a homosexual experience is homosexual? Well, let the parade begin. Why don't we add fans of Ellen and Margaret Cho into the mix?

And here's how homosexuality is "defined" in a more literal sense. In case you were wondering.
Main Entry: 1ho·mo·sex·u·al
Pronunciation: "hO-m&-'seksh-(&-)w&l, -'sek-sh&l
Function: adjective
1 : of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward individuals of one's own sex
(Emphasis mine)

[Timber Loftis]

To give you guys a layman American perspective on this, my secretary thought it was the best news she'd heard all day. Persecuting Palestinians AND gays in one fell swoop was a very pleasing thought to her.

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Illumina Drathiran'ar: Ok, that's enough. I'm tired of that. Despite what you might say... or believe... or maybe even want to believe (There's an interesting thought), you're wrong when you say sexuality is defined by action. Does that mean that Roman Catholic priests are asexual? No. They're heterosexual, or maybe sometimes homosexual or bisexual. Are you going to tell me (for, what, the fourth time?) that now I'm limiting people by their sexuality? In case that's what you're thinking, let me state that I'm not. But sexuality is part of being human. Our desires shape who we are, like it or not. If my friend Dave up and got married to a woman and even had sex with her, what, a few times a year, he'd still be gay. Sorry. Homosexuals have heterosexual experiences the same way heterosexuals have homosexual experiences. Or are you still suggesting that everyone who's experimented or had a homosexual experience is homosexual? Well, let the parade begin. Why don't we add fans of Ellen and Margaret Cho into the mix? And here's how homosexuality is "defined" in a more literal sense. In case you were wondering. Main Entry: 1ho·mo·sex·u·al Pronunciation: "hO-m&-'seksh-(&-)w&l, -'sek-sh&l Function: adjective 1 : of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward individuals of one's own sex (Emphasis mine)

Illum, If you keep "IT" in your pants or your knees together and your mouth shut, you are non-sexual. Now your thoughts maybe whatever, Hetero/Homo/Beastie, but a thought is like Kinetic energy(IIRC that's the right term) unused and potential, only when the action is carried out is the potential released.

[ 08-12-2004, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: John D Harris ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Illumina Drathiran'ar: Ok, that's enough. I'm tired of that. Despite what you might say... or believe... or maybe even want to believe (There's an interesting thought), you're wrong when you say sexuality is defined by action. Does that mean that Roman Catholic priests are asexual? No. They're heterosexual, or maybe sometimes homosexual or bisexual. Are you going to tell me (for, what, the fourth time?) that now I'm limiting people by their sexuality? In case that's what you're thinking, let me state that I'm not. But sexuality is part of being human. Our desires shape who we are, like it or not. If my friend Dave up and got married to a woman and even had sex with her, what, a few times a year, he'd still be gay. Sorry. Homosexuals have heterosexual experiences the same way heterosexuals have homosexual experiences. Or are you still suggesting that everyone who's experimented or had a homosexual experience is homosexual? Well, let the parade begin. Why don't we add fans of Ellen and Margaret Cho into the mix? And here's how homosexuality is "defined" in a more literal sense. In case you were wondering. Main Entry: 1ho·mo·sex·u·al Pronunciation: "hO-m&-'seksh-(&-)w&l, -'sek-sh&l Function: adjective 1 : of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward individuals of one's own sex (Emphasis mine)

Roman priests are celibate, not asexual. And yes, it's defined by actions. If they have sex they are no longer celibate are they???? Really simple Illumina. Doesn't matter how much they desire celibacy, their actions determine what they are.

Plenty of hetrosexuals have moments of homosexual desire. Doesn't make hem homosexual. It's called tmptation. Plenty of married people get desire for a third party. Doesn't make them adulterous, it's called temptation. Desire rises and falls. Desire can surprise you. What you do with that desire is what determines your sexuality. Kinky, straight, celibate, hetro, bi, homo, swinger. Again, doesn't matter how much you desire, are tempted by, or think about swinging, unless you do it, you aren't a swinger.

Let's extend it to theft. You're only a theif if you steal, not if you think about stealing. Or murder. You can have murderous desire, but the murderer is the one that acts on it. You are only violent if you act out your violent desires, not if you sitting around imagining punching people.

"Evil men do, what Good men think".