More Annoying -- and Stupid -- Insurgent Attacks

[Timber Loftis]

Can anyone, no matter how stoopid, believe the insurgents fight for Iraq? I would think that sooner or later Iraqis will wisen up and start flogging these people in the streets for trying to make the lives of Iraqis worse. The people who bomb power plants or pipelines do not love Iraq -- rather, they hate America. Hating America is fine, and an apparently virtuous thing in the Middle East. But, when they are willing to elevate their hate to the level of tossing "love" of Iraq out the window, of acting against Iraq itself, how can the people support them?

Listen, insurgents. If you really hate the US, then let us rebuild the shit we're trying to rebuild, milk us for all the money we're worth, and then wave bye-bye to us as we exit your country. Then you can feel free to return to retarded ululating in the streets. It makes no difference to us. But, if you want us out, you are better off NOT attacking these things. They harm YOUR people, and they only ensure we will be there longer. Get it? Are you just too stupid?
__________________________________________________ __________________

June 9, 2004
INSURGENTS' STRATEGY
Saboteurs May Be Aiming at Electrical and Water Sites as Summer Nears
By JAMES GLANZ

BAGHDAD, Iraq, June 8 — An enormous power plant south of Baghdad was shut down last weekend by coordinated attacks on fuel and transmission lines, American and Iraqi government officials said Tuesday. The sabotage raised new fears that insurgents were beginning to make targets of major sectors of the infrastructure as part of an overall plan to destabilize the interim Iraqi government.

At full production, the plant is capable of supplying nearly 20 percent of the entire electrical output of Iraq. But after the war, the plant's output plunged to nearly zero, and it is still generating only a fraction of its maximum output, said Raad al-Haris, deputy minister for electricity.

An official with the Coalition Provisional Authority, which is scheduled to hand over sovereignty to a new Iraqi government on June 30, confirmed that an oil pipeline south of Baghdad was struck in the last week. A second senior official in the Electricity Ministry said that the weekend attack was the latest in a series in the same area, and that repairs on the lines had repeatedly been followed by new strikes. This official said the pipeline also delivered crude oil to at least one major refinery, whose operations had also been affected.

By Tuesday, enough repairs had been done to bring the plant's output to about 300 megawatts of electricity out of a possible 750 megawatts for most of the day, the Iraqi official said. Power plants around the country put about 4,000 megawatts on the electrical grid, although demand is much higher — leading to frequent blackouts, both scheduled and unscheduled — and is expected to soar even further this summer.

"As we have been saying for some time, international terrorists and Saddam loyalists continue to try to derail the emergence of a modern democratic Iraq," Dallas Lawrence, a spokesman for the Coalition Provisional Authority, said in a statement. "These terrorists hope that by damaging Iraq's infrastructure, by depriving Iraqis of basic services, they will be able to impoverish the Iraqi people and capitalize on a sense of frustration."

He added: "They will not succeed."

More worrisome than this specific act of sabotage, said Mr. Haris, the Iraqi minister, is the pattern of attacks on the country's electrical grid. He estimated that the high-tension lines that are the backbone of the grid had been attacked an average of twice a week recently, and he expressed irritation at what he said was a refusal by the Coalition Provisional Authority to provide security for the lines.

"They did nothing about the transmission line security," Mr. Haris said. "They should. They say, `We have no such capability.' "

When the Electricity Ministry asked for a helicopter to patrol the lines, it was turned down, he said.

But the American official who confirmed the weekend attack said that the authority was helping train thousands of Electricity Ministry guards, but that no force could provide 24-hour-a-day security for the more than 10,000 miles of major power lines in Iraq.

The electrical turbines, power lines and other equipment at the plant south of Baghdad have been the focus of major reconstruction work as part of the overall rebuilding of the country, largely financed by billions of dollars of American money and revenues from Iraq's oil fields.

Even before the weekend strike, the area around the plant had been the subject of violence, including a drive-by shooting that killed two European engineers and a bomb attack on a police station.

A senior United States military intelligence official said insurgents in Iraq had begun to realize that with summer coming on, damaging the electrical and water infrastructure could sow widespread distrust and discontent with the occupation and its allies, including the new Iraqi government.

"This is a very big priority for them right now," said Ray Salvatore Jennings, representative in Iraq for the United States Institute of Peace, who often meets with American officials here. "They see this insurgency getting very sophisticated about targeting this to delegitimize the new regime."

Saad Shakir Tawfiq, an engineer who worked on the rehabilitation of the grid in 1991 and now leads a government-owned center in the Iraqi Ministry of Industry that is doing some work at several power plants, said the insurgents' effort aimed "to distract the American-backed government."

"If there is no electricity, no water, whatever, the government will fail," Dr. Tawfiq said.

[shamrock_uk]

Whilst I completely agree with your views on the futility of these actions and I also wish they'd just give it a rest and let us get on with rebuilding, from the point of view of the regime loyalist, its actually very sensible.

If they allowed America to rebuild and get out, that would represent a symbolic victory for the US. They want to see America brought to its knees over this, and the easiest way to do that is to attack targets like powerstations.

Sure, it reduces the living standards of Iraqi civilians, but that's incidental for people with an agenda like this. It's all about manipulation of public opinion, and it seems to be working as opinion has certainly hardened against the occupation since a year ago.

The average Iraqi just knows they don't have electricity or water for example, is caught in the middle of the military clash in retaliation and can't help thinking that things weren't like this in Saddam's day. As long as you joined the Ba'th party, kept your head down, life sort-of went on. Plus it creates great anti-coalition publicity: we've all seen the anguished cries of "is this freedom?"

[EDIT] for clarity before I get a ton of angry replies: yes, mass graves have been discovered, yes Saddam was rather ruthless in purging political opponents, yes he massacred kurdish villages. But in a country the size of Iraq, most citizens were generally left alone if they kept their nose out of trouble and politics. And the kurds have never really been a proper part of Iraq since the Ottoman days so can't really be representative of the Iraqi people. Not seeking to make excuses for his regime, i think its great its gone, just trying to put local feeling in context.[/EDIT]

It's probably also worth distinguishing the insurgents from the ululators. Without wishing to make sweeping statements, asides from a visible street presence in places like Najaf and Falluja, the average ululator is just a politically active citizen; the street has long been the forum for political expression in the middle-east.

So, bloody annoying? Indeed. Bad for the Iraqi people? Undoubtedly. But stupid? I think they're playing a dangerous game extremely well...

[EDIT 2] Also worth considering that in effect its an 'all or bust' situation for them. If America is successful, there is no future for them in Iraq in any case, so from their mindset I suppose allowing a successful reconstruction is unthinkable and impossible[/EDIT]

[EDIT 3] But I agree that a rising up and flogging, or any expression of public anger directed against these insurgents would indeed be welcome, if only to make the 'liberation' agenda sit easier on TV screens in the western world. However as i don't think they act for the Iraqi people, i'm not certain whether it would have an effect on insurgent operations though.

[ 06-09-2004, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]

[Skunk]

*sigh*.

It makes PERFECT military sense to attack water and electricity.

The US army is highly sophisicated and all bases and equipment are heavily reliant on electricty to run.

No electricity means large fuel convoys to feed the generators: convoys which are very easy to attack and storage dumps which are easily mortared.

The local populace is not so reliant on electricity to live (hospitals excepted), but not attacking fuel convoys to hospitals will leave those ok too.

Attacking water supplies does the same job.
The locals get their water from wells and rivers (in the main) and so are largely unaffected, a large standing army can't do the same and operate as effectively (esp. with the poor quality of the water and troops not being resistent to the local waterborne diseases). And what you do drag up has to be boiled. So this means shipping more water in: by convoy.


The attacks make the populace uncomfortable but, in the main, doesn't hurt it. They will make life very difficult for the occupying forces though, reliant on vunerable convoys.

I'm sure that as soon as sovereignty is returned to Iraq, the insurgents will stop their attacks.

[ 06-10-2004, 02:38 AM: Message edited by: Skunk ]

[johnny]

The locals get their water from wells and rivers

In little villages perhaps, but not in densely populated cities like Baghdad. There are no wells in Baghdad, and drinking from the river, is probably deadlier than a bullet, so the local poulation IS effected by the insurgents's actions. They now need to go buy fresh water in stores with money that they don't have.

[Timber Loftis]

I'm sure that as soon as sovereignty is returned to Iraq, the insurgents will stop their attacks.

Nope, I don't think so. But I hope you're right.

[shamrock_uk]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: quote: I'm sure that as soon as sovereignty is returned to Iraq, the insurgents will stop their attacks.

Nope, I don't think so. But I hope you're right. [/QUOTE]What makes you sure Skunk? Firstly, the sovereignty is not real sovereignty, so therefore its not legitimate. Secondly, the US will maintain a formidable presence for years to come even if troops pull out. The largest embassy in the world I seem to remember reading somewhere. Thirdly, most Iraqi's don't even know the members of the new government and therefore I should imagine the loyalties of the insurgents would be debatable at best.

That's not even counting the fighters who aren't from Iraq and therefore would have no allegiance to a sovereign Iraqi government anyway. But yes, I hope also.

[Skunk]

Originally posted by johnny: quote: The locals get their water from wells and rivers

In little villages perhaps, but not in densely populated cities like Baghdad. [/QUOTE]Actually, yes they do - and have been doing since the war began - water supplies in Bagdad have been erratic at best (if at all).

Originally posted by shamrock_uk: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: quote: I'm sure that as soon as sovereignty is returned to Iraq, the insurgents will stop their attacks.

Nope, I don't think so. But I hope you're right. [/QUOTE]What makes you sure Skunk? Firstly, the sovereignty is not real sovereignty, so therefore its not legitimate. Secondly, the US will maintain a formidable presence for years to come even if troops pull out. The largest embassy in the world I seem to remember reading somewhere. Thirdly, most Iraqi's don't even know the members of the new government and therefore I should imagine the loyalties of the insurgents would be debatable at best.

That's not even counting the fighters who aren't from Iraq and therefore would have no allegiance to a sovereign Iraqi government anyway. But yes, I hope also. [/QUOTE]As I said, WHEN sovereignty is returned, I expect the attacks to end. Iraq doesn't have sovereignty yet, much less a democratically elected government. I'm fairly certain that, should a democratically elected government enjoying FULL sovereignty allow foreign troops to remain it will be because the *PEOPLE* want them to be there - or the government wouldn't survive - and neither would the insurgents.

[ 06-10-2004, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: Skunk ]

[Timber Loftis]

Firstly, the sovereignty is not real sovereignty, so therefore its not legitimate.

I disagree vehemently. The Iraqi interim prime minister has already began setting conditions for the continued stay of US troops. It's not even the end of June yet, and already Iraq is exercising its sovereignty. And, good for it, I say.

And, while the actions and requirements of the interim government may be edicts made by those people installed by the US, I note that (1) whether or not friendly to the US, Iraq's well-being seems to be #1 on the agenda and (2) elections will be held soon (January I think) and Iraqis will have the opportunity to replace those interim folks if they don't like them.

I think we can all agree that we hope the transition goes well, and that Iraqis are able to form a better and stronger country absent Saddam. Whilst if this occurs it may be a "gold star" on the US's record world-wide, I also think we can all agree to swallow that bitter pill for the betterment of all the people of Iraq.

[Donut]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Can anyone, no matter how stoopid, believe the insurgents fight for Iraq? I would think that sooner or later Iraqis will wisen up and start flogging these people in the streets for trying to make the lives of Iraqis worse. The people who bomb power plants or pipelines do not love Iraq -- rather, they hate America. Hating America is fine, and an apparently virtuous thing in the Middle East. But, when they are willing to elevate their hate to the level of tossing "love" of Iraq out the window, of acting against Iraq itself, how can the people support them? Listen, insurgents. If you really hate the US, then let us rebuild the shit we're trying to rebuild, milk us for all the money we're worth, and then wave bye-bye to us as we exit your country. Then you can feel free to return to retarded ululating in the streets. It makes no difference to us. But, if you want us out, you are better off NOT attacking these things. They harm YOUR people, and they only ensure we will be there longer. Get it? Are you just too stupid? __________________________________________________ __________________

I may have mentioned this before Timber, you'll need to stop thinking like an American for a while if you want to understand why they do this. And until you understand you will never find solutions.

[shamrock_uk]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: quote: Firstly, the sovereignty is not real sovereignty, so therefore its not legitimate.

I disagree vehemently. The Iraqi interim prime minister has already began setting conditions for the continued stay of US troops. It's not even the end of June yet, and already Iraq is exercising its sovereignty. And, good for it, I say.[/QUOTE]Sorry, I meant from the point of view of the insurgency. I think its a step in the right direction. But until the government has the veto over combat operations, I still don't believe its enough sovereignty.