Bush continues to spend..

Rokenn · 01-15-2004, 10:33 AM

It seems poor George just can't spend it fast enough, not only does he want to fight two wars, engage in long-term nation-building, and get all Space: 1999 on our a$$es--he also wants to spend $1.5 billion promoting marriage.

Bush Plans $1.5 Billion Drive for Promotion of Marriage]
By ROBERT PEAR and DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK
Published: January 14, 2004

Excrept:

WASHINGTON, Jan. 13 — Administration officials say they are planning an extensive election-year initiative to promote marriage, especially among low-income couples, and they are weighing whether President Bush should promote the plan next week in his State of the Union address.

For months, administration officials have worked with conservative groups on the proposal, which would provide at least $1.5 billion for training to help couples develop interpersonal skills that sustain "healthy marriages."

The officials said they believed that the measure was especially timely because they were facing pressure from conservatives eager to see the federal government defend traditional marriage, after a decision by the highest court in Massachusetts. The court ruled in November that gay couples had a right to marry under the state's Constitution.

"This is a way for the president to address the concerns of conservatives and to solidify his conservative base," a presidential adviser said.

[ 01-17-2004, 05:52 AM: Message edited by: Ziroc ]

Djinn Raffo · 01-15-2004, 12:34 PM

Wow marriage must really be in danger of extinction if it needs government support.

Cerek the Barbaric · 01-15-2004, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo:
Wow marriage must really be in danger of extinction if it needs government support.

My thoughts exactly, Djinn. You cannot legislate morality. You can't force people to accept a particular set of values or morals if they don't want to. And you can't "encourage" couples of any income level to get married if they don't want to.

President Bush could easily voice his support of traditional marriage values without allocating 1.5 billion dollars to help fund the effort. Plus, he isn't going to face a serious threat from the Democrats for a few months yet, as they are going to be too busy going after each other in an effort to see who gets to challenge him.

SIDENOTE: I haven't followed the Democratic debates very closely. I understand Howard Dean seems to be in the front-running right now, but I'm kinda interested to see what Wes Clark has to offer. It will be interesting to hear his platform and see who he would choose as his running mate if he gets the opportunity. I think it's a foregone conclusion who Howard Dean will choose as his running mate - but that decision carries a lot of liabilities with it, so he may go in a different direction.

skywalker · 01-15-2004, 01:09 PM

Cerek, who is the forgone conclusion as far as Dean's running mate, if he is the nominee...Edwards?

Mark

Timber Loftis · 01-15-2004, 01:39 PM

I think dean may be a straw target to get shot up while everyone lets Clark go unnoticed. I think Clark may resurface at the end of the fracas.

We do legislate morality, unfortunately. Fortunately, we do it with a soft hand. The tax code encourages marriage, home ownership, and having children, for instance. It also encourages charitable giving. Then there are real morality legislations such as DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act). In fact, making murder illegal is legislating morality in truth. As I've said before, however, the general social contract has been something along the lines of "the morality you can legislate is that everyone is free to do as they please, so long as they do not harm others through intentional or negligent acts they commit." We all agree on that, but it IS a moral standpoint.

As for spending money to save marriages, why not just dump the $1+ billion back into tax cuts so those of us who have problems can seek counseling? Oh, and as long a gay marriages are included I'm all for them!

skywalker · 01-15-2004, 01:52 PM

That may be so Timber, but I doubt very much that was Dean's intention. I think Clark is not a "perfect" candidate, and I doubt he will get by unnoticed. Democratic politics really make me sick at the moment.

Mark

Timber Loftis · 01-15-2004, 02:46 PM

Oh, I'm sure it wasn't Dean's intentions. But, how the DNC may try to play them against each other is a whole other question. I'll tell you that Clinton was picked as the candidate by a certain combined group of business leaders well before the primaries picked him.

khazadman · 01-15-2004, 03:52 PM

The Clinton wing of the party is going to go all out to stop Dean. Because they know that if he gets the nod that he will be the defacto head of the party, which means that he will decide who runs the DNC. And I doubt very much that the good doctor will let McCauliff(sp?) stay there after the way the DNC has treated him.

skywalker · 01-15-2004, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by khazadman:
The Clinton wing of the party is going to go all out to stop Dean. Because they know that if he gets the nod that he will be the defacto head of the party, which means that he will decide who runs the DNC. And I doubt very much that the good doctor will let McCauliff(sp?) stay there after the way the DNC has treated him.

You got that right! Truer words were never said! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Mark

wellard · 01-15-2004, 05:12 PM

1.5 billion on marrage guidance [img]graemlins/verysad.gif[/img] next week it will be a 10 billion dollar programme for debt management classes for those people that can not work within a budget

What a waste of money. GW abacus Bush strikes again. *sigh*

01-15-2004, 10:33 AM	#1
Rokenn Galvatron Join Date: January 22, 2002 Location: california wine country Age: 61 Posts: 2,193	It seems poor George just can't spend it fast enough, not only does he want to fight two wars, engage in long-term nation-building, and get all Space: 1999 on our a$$es--he also wants to spend $1.5 billion promoting marriage. Bush Plans $1.5 Billion Drive for Promotion of Marriage] By ROBERT PEAR and DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK Published: January 14, 2004 Excrept: WASHINGTON, Jan. 13 — Administration officials say they are planning an extensive election-year initiative to promote marriage, especially among low-income couples, and they are weighing whether President Bush should promote the plan next week in his State of the Union address. For months, administration officials have worked with conservative groups on the proposal, which would provide at least $1.5 billion for training to help couples develop interpersonal skills that sustain "healthy marriages." The officials said they believed that the measure was especially timely because they were facing pressure from conservatives eager to see the federal government defend traditional marriage, after a decision by the highest court in Massachusetts. The court ruled in November that gay couples had a right to marry under the state's Constitution. "This is a way for the president to address the concerns of conservatives and to solidify his conservative base," a presidential adviser said. [ 01-17-2004, 05:52 AM: Message edited by: Ziroc ] __________________ “This is an impressive crowd, the haves and the have mores. <br />Some people call you the elite. <br />I call you my base.”<br />~ George W. Bush (2000)

01-15-2004, 01:39 PM	#5
Timber Loftis 40th Level Warrior Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 11,916	I think dean may be a straw target to get shot up while everyone lets Clark go unnoticed. I think Clark may resurface at the end of the fracas. We do legislate morality, unfortunately. Fortunately, we do it with a soft hand. The tax code encourages marriage, home ownership, and having children, for instance. It also encourages charitable giving. Then there are real morality legislations such as DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act). In fact, making murder illegal is legislating morality in truth. As I've said before, however, the general social contract has been something along the lines of "the morality you can legislate is that everyone is free to do as they please, so long as they do not harm others through intentional or negligent acts they commit." We all agree on that, but it IS a moral standpoint. As for spending money to save marriages, why not just dump the $1+ billion back into tax cuts so those of us who have problems can seek counseling? Oh, and as long a gay marriages are included I'm all for them! __________________

01-15-2004, 02:46 PM	#7
Timber Loftis 40th Level Warrior Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 11,916	Oh, I'm sure it wasn't Dean's intentions. But, how the DNC may try to play them against each other is a whole other question. I'll tell you that Clinton was picked as the candidate by a certain combined group of business leaders well before the primaries picked him. __________________

01-15-2004, 05:12 PM	#10
wellard Dracolisk Join Date: November 1, 2002 Location: Australia ..... G\'day! Posts: 6,123	1.5 billion on marrage guidance [img]graemlins/verysad.gif[/img] next week it will be a 10 billion dollar programme for debt management classes for those people that can not work within a budget What a waste of money. GW abacus Bush strikes again. sigh __________________ fossils - natures way of laughing at creationists for over 3 billion years

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01-15-2004, 12:34 PM	#2
Djinn Raffo Ra Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: Ant Hill Age: 50 Posts: 2,397	Wow marriage must really be in danger of extinction if it needs government support.

01-15-2004, 01:09 PM	#4
skywalker Banned User Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: VT, USA Age: 64 Posts: 3,097	Cerek, who is the forgone conclusion as far as Dean's running mate, if he is the nominee...Edwards? Mark

01-15-2004, 01:52 PM	#6
skywalker Banned User Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: VT, USA Age: 64 Posts: 3,097	That may be so Timber, but I doubt very much that was Dean's intention. I think Clark is not a "perfect" candidate, and I doubt he will get by unnoticed. Democratic politics really make me sick at the moment. Mark

01-15-2004, 03:52 PM	#8
khazadman User suspended until [Feb13] Join Date: December 6, 2001 Location: the south side of ol virginny Age: 63 Posts: 1,172	The Clinton wing of the party is going to go all out to stop Dean. Because they know that if he gets the nod that he will be the defacto head of the party, which means that he will decide who runs the DNC. And I doubt very much that the good doctor will let McCauliff(sp?) stay there after the way the DNC has treated him.

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