The New Yorker: The Stove Pipe

skywalker · 10-20-2003, 08:01 PM

I heard about this article on NPR today. It is in the Nov.27 issue of the magazine. I was all set to buy my first issue of The New Yorker when I went to their site and found the whole thing posted there. Looks like I won't have to buy it:

THE STOVEPIPE

by SEYMOUR M. HERSH

How conflicts between the Bush Administration and the intelligence community marred the reporting on Iraq’s weapons.

Issue of 2003-10-27
Posted 2003-10-20

Since midsummer, the Senate Intelligence Committee has been attempting to solve the biggest mystery of the Iraq war: the disparity between the Bush Administration’s prewar assessment of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction and what has actually been discovered.

The committee is concentrating on the last ten years’ worth of reports by the C.I.A. Preliminary findings, one intelligence official told me, are disquieting. “The intelligence community made all kinds of errors and handled things sloppily,” he said. The problems range from a lack of quality control to different agencies’ reporting contradictory assessments at the same time. One finding, the official went on, was that the intelligence reports about Iraq provided by the United Nations inspection teams and the International Atomic Energy Agency, which monitored Iraq’s nuclear-weapons programs, were far more accurate than the C.I.A. estimates. “Some of the old-timers in the community are appalled by how bad the analysis was,” the official said. “If you look at them side by side, C.I.A. versus United Nations, the U.N. agencies come out ahead across the board.”

There were, of course, good reasons to worry about Saddam Hussein’s possession of W.M.D.s. He had manufactured and used chemical weapons in the past, and had experimented with biological weapons; before the first Gulf War, he maintained a multibillion-dollar nuclear-weapons program. In addition, there were widespread doubts about the efficacy of the U.N. inspection teams, whose operations in Iraq were repeatedly challenged and disrupted by Saddam Hussein. Iraq was thought to have manufactured at least six thousand more chemical weapons than the U.N. could account for. And yet, as some former U.N. inspectors often predicted, the tons of chemical and biological weapons that the American public was led to expect have thus far proved illusory. As long as that remains the case, one question will be asked more and more insistently: How did the American intelligence community get it so wrong?

More Here

This is mighty explosive stuff, read the whole thing!

Mark

[ 10-20-2003, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: skywalker ]

Timber Loftis · 10-21-2003, 01:56 AM

Oooooh, the New Yorker. Now, where is my commie pinko hat? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

skywalker · 10-21-2003, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
Oooooh, the New Yorker. Now, where is my commie pinko hat? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I guess I'm just ignorant (big surprise!), but you think the New Yorker is a Communistic Rag? Why is that?

Did you read the article?

Mark

Timber Loftis · 10-21-2003, 11:42 AM

I was alluding to the fact that some consider TNY to be an extreme-left rag. I don't read it enough to have an opinion one way or the other. It was just a hip-shot joke is all.

skywalker · 10-21-2003, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
I was alluding to the fact that some consider TNY to be an extreme-left rag. I don't read it enough to have an opinion one way or the other. It was just a hip-shot joke is all.

Yeah, as I posted, I have never bought an issue, though I have read a few essays by Steve Martin.

As I said my ignorance is showing. Being fairly left myself, maybe I should be reading it regularly.

But looking at the responses on this thread so far, it appears that not many are interested in the "rag", anyway! I was hoping to get some veiws from all sides on the issue (maybe I'm being too impatient).

Mark

Chewbacca · 10-23-2003, 06:27 PM

Thanks for the article Mark.

I for one, have trouble finding what is so "left" about it. It seems to me to be a pretty solid piece of journalism.

Greg Theilman should get a medal for coming out with his story.

skywalker · 10-23-2003, 07:38 PM

Gee Chewwy, it's nice to see someone has read the article. Except for Timber I got the impression that this is the kind of stuff no one cares to read about.

Maybe, no one likes the New Yorker, maybe no one leans very far left here.

Oh well.

Mark

10-21-2003, 01:56 AM	#2
Timber Loftis 40th Level Warrior Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 11,916	Oooooh, the New Yorker. Now, where is my commie pinko hat? [img]tongue.gif[/img] __________________

10-21-2003, 11:42 AM	#4
Timber Loftis 40th Level Warrior Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 11,916	I was alluding to the fact that some consider TNY to be an extreme-left rag. I don't read it enough to have an opinion one way or the other. It was just a hip-shot joke is all. __________________

10-23-2003, 06:27 PM	#6
Chewbacca Zartan Join Date: July 18, 2001 Location: America, On The Beautiful Earth Age: 51 Posts: 5,373	Thanks for the article Mark. I for one, have trouble finding what is so "left" about it. It seems to me to be a pretty solid piece of journalism. Greg Theilman should get a medal for coming out with his story. __________________ Support Local Music and Record Stores! Got Liberty?

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10-20-2003, 08:01 PM	#1
skywalker Banned User Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: VT, USA Age: 64 Posts: 3,097	I heard about this article on NPR today. It is in the Nov.27 issue of the magazine. I was all set to buy my first issue of The New Yorker when I went to their site and found the whole thing posted there. Looks like I won't have to buy it: THE STOVEPIPE by SEYMOUR M. HERSH How conflicts between the Bush Administration and the intelligence community marred the reporting on Iraq’s weapons. Issue of 2003-10-27 Posted 2003-10-20 Since midsummer, the Senate Intelligence Committee has been attempting to solve the biggest mystery of the Iraq war: the disparity between the Bush Administration’s prewar assessment of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction and what has actually been discovered. The committee is concentrating on the last ten years’ worth of reports by the C.I.A. Preliminary findings, one intelligence official told me, are disquieting. “The intelligence community made all kinds of errors and handled things sloppily,” he said. The problems range from a lack of quality control to different agencies’ reporting contradictory assessments at the same time. One finding, the official went on, was that the intelligence reports about Iraq provided by the United Nations inspection teams and the International Atomic Energy Agency, which monitored Iraq’s nuclear-weapons programs, were far more accurate than the C.I.A. estimates. “Some of the old-timers in the community are appalled by how bad the analysis was,” the official said. “If you look at them side by side, C.I.A. versus United Nations, the U.N. agencies come out ahead across the board.” There were, of course, good reasons to worry about Saddam Hussein’s possession of W.M.D.s. He had manufactured and used chemical weapons in the past, and had experimented with biological weapons; before the first Gulf War, he maintained a multibillion-dollar nuclear-weapons program. In addition, there were widespread doubts about the efficacy of the U.N. inspection teams, whose operations in Iraq were repeatedly challenged and disrupted by Saddam Hussein. Iraq was thought to have manufactured at least six thousand more chemical weapons than the U.N. could account for. And yet, as some former U.N. inspectors often predicted, the tons of chemical and biological weapons that the American public was led to expect have thus far proved illusory. As long as that remains the case, one question will be asked more and more insistently: How did the American intelligence community get it so wrong? More Here This is mighty explosive stuff, read the whole thing! Mark [ 10-20-2003, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: skywalker ]

10-23-2003, 07:38 PM	#7
skywalker Banned User Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: VT, USA Age: 64 Posts: 3,097	Gee Chewwy, it's nice to see someone has read the article. Except for Timber I got the impression that this is the kind of stuff no one cares to read about. Maybe, no one likes the New Yorker, maybe no one leans very far left here. Oh well. Mark

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