On patriotism

Kaz · 09-12-2001, 04:24 AM

This post is not meant to offend anyone here. It does not criticize you, it criticizes my own home country.
In Germany, none of you would be able to say the things you are saying here. Anybody who said 'God bless Germany' here would probably be warned or arrested as a Neo-Nazi. Patriotism is almost unknown, you do not say things like 'our nation' or 'the German people must...' here (BTW the first two verses of our national anthem are outlawed). You do not see German flags anywhere, unlike in America. To be honest, I am seriously feeling ill hearing you all praise your country. We're INDOCTRINATED against patriotism! Am I the only one who thinks that there is something WRONG with this picture, when you can't be proud of living in a land that you like?

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Kazara

Waitress at Cloudy's Cafe

250 · 09-12-2001, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaz:
This post is not meant to offend anyone here. It does not criticize you, it criticizes my own home country.
In Germany, none of you would be able to say the things you are saying here. Anybody who said 'God bless Germany' here would probably be warned or arrested as a Neo-Nazi. Patriotism is almost unknown, you do not say things like 'our nation' or 'the German people must...' here (BTW the first two verses of our national anthem are outlawed). You do not see German flags anywhere, unlike in America. To be honest, I am seriously feeling ill hearing you all praise your country. We're INDOCTRINATED against patriotism! Am I the only one who thinks that there is something WRONG with this picture, when you can't be proud of living in a land that you like?

yes,definately.
my first thought on this is:
there are certain things one should not restrain. if you supress people's love for their land too much, they eventually lose their fight or identity.

or, they go on an extreme road and become, VERY patriasm. (kind like when you order a child not to do soemthing, he does it anyway)

dominions · 09-12-2001, 04:35 AM

As you probably know, that's a legacy left to the innocent new generations of Germany from the old.
Everything has a price, the bigger the thing you do, the higher the price. The price for the 2nd world war was/is extremely high. The world has mostly stopped exacting this price from you, but your own country hasn't.

This is how I see it. I don't intend to offend anyone.

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Hey! Like RPGs? See the DungeonCraft - RPG Game Maker on the Ironworks Gaming Forum

Kaz · 09-12-2001, 04:37 AM

I think Germany (at least the part I live in) is heading straight toward option 1. However, there are still Neo-Nazis around, so I guess some people chose option 2. And you're right, dominios. You can really feel history pressing down on you sometimes, as if we have to keep proving that we've changed.

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Kazara

Waitress at Cloudy's Cafe

sylent · 09-12-2001, 04:47 AM

As an australian, I kinda get to see the whole picture from outside a bit.
I think a lot of the information I get, is a little warped and twisted, but hey.
In australia, it is often said that half of the population wouldn't actually know the national anthem... This would by no means be the case in America, where flags are hung proudly, and the anthem is known by all.
Even though most of us had to sing it in primary school anyway... I don't know, it can be a good thing, and surely it is. Most of us adopt the anthem as "Waltzing Matilda", which I am sure only reassures the rest of the world that we are all country bumpkins.

I don't really know if I have gone off topic, because I am unsure of what I have actually said here.

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"Watch your back"

Kaz · 09-12-2001, 04:52 AM

The national anthem... I know... um... the first two lines of the third verse (as the first two verses are forbidden, the third is what you sing). I don't think anybody I know knows any more. And I don't think I've EVER heard it being sung. The only places you get flags here are on official buildings. Otherwise... none of the schools have one (unlike American schools), no private houses have any (now THAT would be Nazi), I believe I have seen... one flag in the whole of this city. Maybe. I'm not sure.
Get the picture?

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Kazara

Waitress at Cloudy's Cafe

09-12-2001, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaz:
The national anthem... I know... um... the first two lines of the third verse (as the first two verses are forbidden, the third is what you sing). I don't think anybody I know knows any more. And I don't think I've EVER heard it being sung. The only places you get flags here are on official buildings. Otherwise... none of the schools have one (unlike American schools), no private houses have any (now THAT would be Nazi), I believe I have seen... one flag in the whole of this city. Maybe. I'm not sure.
Get the picture?

National flags here, only turn up on important buildings and sometimes on schools - well most schools have a flagpole but only use it for cermonial purposes. As for the national anthem, most people know it but only the bits that are used these days, several verses have been taken out as they celebrate our colonial past. However anyone that said "God bless England" would certainly get some funny looks.

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Holy Avenger of the OHF and part time Pinguindiebjäger

sylent · 09-12-2001, 06:08 AM

To any Americans who would take offence to anything that has been said, may it be known that this is not a "blast America" thread (at least I don't think so).
Just the cultural differences are rather interesting.
Australia is some kind of weird mish-mash of culture, although the thing which most people claim to be proud of is multiculturalism.

Time does go on, and with it comes the future, and infinitely uncertain thing. Except to Nostradamus

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"Watch your back"

Avatar · 09-12-2001, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sylent:

Australia is some kind of weird mish-mash of culture, although the thing which most people claim to be proud of is multiculturalism.

Really? I don't know much about Australia (except from Neighbours hehehe)
Is it really multi-cultural? A smuch as the UK?

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09-12-2001, 08:40 AM

Kaz, i had no idea that Germany was still that sensitive about the aftereffects of WWII. I suppose it is a good thing in light of not wanting to forget or repeat the events of that era. It seems so alien to me to NOT see flags or sing your national anthem. This may sound sappy to some folks, but I still get tears in my eyes when I sing our national anthem. I am very proud to be American and I love my country. I can't imagine what it would be like to lose that, or to be unable to express it openly. It seems to me almost like religious persecution in that you have to keep quiet about your beliefs for fear of retribution.
Thanks for posting this Kaz, I am getting a new appreciation for how and why America is perceived the way it is worldwide.

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09-12-2001, 04:24 AM	#1
Kaz Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom Join Date: August 16, 2001 Location: UK Posts: 2,891	This post is not meant to offend anyone here. It does not criticize you, it criticizes my own home country. In Germany, none of you would be able to say the things you are saying here. Anybody who said 'God bless Germany' here would probably be warned or arrested as a Neo-Nazi. Patriotism is almost unknown, you do not say things like 'our nation' or 'the German people must...' here (BTW the first two verses of our national anthem are outlawed). You do not see German flags anywhere, unlike in America. To be honest, I am seriously feeling ill hearing you all praise your country. We're INDOCTRINATED against patriotism! Am I the only one who thinks that there is something WRONG with this picture, when you can't be proud of living in a land that you like? ------------------ Kazara Waitress at Cloudy's Cafe

09-12-2001, 04:35 AM	#3
dominions Elminster Join Date: March 20, 2001 Location: Hampshire, England Age: 51 Posts: 428	As you probably know, that's a legacy left to the innocent new generations of Germany from the old. Everything has a price, the bigger the thing you do, the higher the price. The price for the 2nd world war was/is extremely high. The world has mostly stopped exacting this price from you, but your own country hasn't. This is how I see it. I don't intend to offend anyone. ------------------ Hey! Like RPGs? See the DungeonCraft - RPG Game Maker on the Ironworks Gaming Forum

09-12-2001, 04:37 AM	#4
Kaz Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom Join Date: August 16, 2001 Location: UK Posts: 2,891	I think Germany (at least the part I live in) is heading straight toward option 1. However, there are still Neo-Nazis around, so I guess some people chose option 2. And you're right, dominios. You can really feel history pressing down on you sometimes, as if we have to keep proving that we've changed. ------------------ Kazara Waitress at Cloudy's Cafe

09-12-2001, 04:47 AM	#5
sylent Emerald Dragon Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 41 Posts: 948	As an australian, I kinda get to see the whole picture from outside a bit. I think a lot of the information I get, is a little warped and twisted, but hey. In australia, it is often said that half of the population wouldn't actually know the national anthem... This would by no means be the case in America, where flags are hung proudly, and the anthem is known by all. Even though most of us had to sing it in primary school anyway... I don't know, it can be a good thing, and surely it is. Most of us adopt the anthem as "Waltzing Matilda", which I am sure only reassures the rest of the world that we are all country bumpkins. I don't really know if I have gone off topic, because I am unsure of what I have actually said here. ------------------ "Watch your back"

09-12-2001, 04:52 AM	#6
Kaz Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom Join Date: August 16, 2001 Location: UK Posts: 2,891	The national anthem... I know... um... the first two lines of the third verse (as the first two verses are forbidden, the third is what you sing). I don't think anybody I know knows any more. And I don't think I've EVER heard it being sung. The only places you get flags here are on official buildings. Otherwise... none of the schools have one (unlike American schools), no private houses have any (now THAT would be Nazi), I believe I have seen... one flag in the whole of this city. Maybe. I'm not sure. Get the picture? ------------------ Kazara Waitress at Cloudy's Cafe

09-12-2001, 06:08 AM	#8
sylent Emerald Dragon Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 41 Posts: 948	To any Americans who would take offence to anything that has been said, may it be known that this is not a "blast America" thread (at least I don't think so). Just the cultural differences are rather interesting. Australia is some kind of weird mish-mash of culture, although the thing which most people claim to be proud of is multiculturalism. Time does go on, and with it comes the future, and infinitely uncertain thing. Except to Nostradamus ------------------ "Watch your back"

09-12-2001, 08:40 AM	#10
Absynthe Guest Posts: n/a	Kaz, i had no idea that Germany was still that sensitive about the aftereffects of WWII. I suppose it is a good thing in light of not wanting to forget or repeat the events of that era. It seems so alien to me to NOT see flags or sing your national anthem. This may sound sappy to some folks, but I still get tears in my eyes when I sing our national anthem. I am very proud to be American and I love my country. I can't imagine what it would be like to lose that, or to be unable to express it openly. It seems to me almost like religious persecution in that you have to keep quiet about your beliefs for fear of retribution. Thanks for posting this Kaz, I am getting a new appreciation for how and why America is perceived the way it is worldwide.

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