Party formations - starting out...

sbb · 02-22-2002, 01:14 PM

I received Wiz8 in the mail yesterday, and I'm just getting started. My party consists of:
Dracon Fighter Human Samurai
Felpurr Gadget. Hobbit Bard
Mook Ranger Elf Bishop

I am looking for suggestions for setting my party formation. I only remember reading one thing about it - that I can leave the forward position empty, and then every one in the center and the flanks can melee (forward).

I'm just looking to see if the basic default formations are OK, or if I need to tweak them. Like, for example, if I put my Fighter and Samurai up front, my Bard on one flank and my Gadgeteer on the other, my Ranger in back, and my Bishop in the middle - does this effectively isolate my Bishop from melee?

Thanks in advance....
-sbb

TYTONK · 02-22-2002, 01:29 PM

I tried the "leaving the forward position empty" deal and it did not work for me at all! I could not get close enough for my dudes in the center to melee unless they had extended weapons. Has anyone else had a different experience? Maybe I will try it again if enough people confirm that it works.

DraconisRex · 02-22-2002, 01:55 PM

Tyntonk:

It works. I'm soloing with a Ninja using just martial arts right now. No problems from playing from the center position.

HOWEVER,

I don't like the non-forward formation. If you get surrounded, you're screwed. Better to put your formation like this:

F1 F2 F3

C1
FL C2 C3 FR

XX

F1... = Front-line fighter-type.
FL = Flanker Left (missile/fighter class)
FR = Flanker Right (same as FL)
C1... = Center character (mage/bard)

If surrounded, drop one of the F1 through F3 characters to the back rank. (XX position) You can't do that from the flat-line formation without moving almost all of your party and probably having some of your characters killed.

SubEffect · 02-22-2002, 02:06 PM

You can think of the areas on the formation chart like shells. I think if you have anything in the outer "shell" in front of the center, it takes up that whole "shell" so essentially anything behind it is in a second rank. If there is nothing, then the center has direct access through..

Personally I keep to the tried and true method of putting the tanks in front (lord, fighter, etc, and rogue since daggers have extremely short ranges) and putting a polearm user (I have two) in the center guarding my mage. My cleric and monk are on the side flanks and no one behind. This way, everyone can reach and the mage is somewhat protected on all sides and really only gets nailed by missle attacks.

I have:

Dwarven Lord, Felpurr Samarai, and a Dracon Rogue in front, then
Faerie Psionic, Elven Ranger and Vi (Valkyrie) in the middle, then
Dwarven Priest and the NPC Monk on the sides.

Vi is an NPC... and the monk, well I don't want to spoil anything.

I know there are better race combos, but I like to actually stray from powergaming and play what sounds fun.

Good luck...

Pyrates · 02-22-2002, 05:02 PM

Hi Guys!

What worked for me well is putting 3 fighters each in the left and the right part, and my two bishops in the back rank (I have 2 NPC's). If I'm standing before a monster, everybody can attack...

Has some disadvantages, too. My bishops begin every fight standing in the wrong direction, so are attacked from behind, which is double damage. Also, if you get surrounded, they are in no good position. Before that I had the two bishops in the middle, Bard and Gadgeteer and the back rank, one fighter with an extended weapon in the middle, too, and the other ones in the front. Was nice and safe, but now all weapons are short ranged (even my one bishop has one, pretty nice thing

), so I had to change something and am pretty happy with that.

Never forget your towel, cheers
Philipp

MaskedFrog · 02-22-2002, 05:18 PM

I played through most of the game without a front. My configuration was as follows:

Samurai and RPC on Left Flank
Ranger in Middle
Ninja and RPC on Right Flank
Gadgeteer, Bishop, and Psionic in Back.

The trick to this formation is to always stay near terrain until you are above level 20. As soon as a fight starts with non-ranged attack monsters run to the terrain and place your back against it. This completely protects your back rank from attacks except extended and range. It also means you can effective have more than 3 characters on the front line. This is a more advanced formation and requires you to think a little bit about your placement. If you do not want to worry about your position, I one person in each side flank, one person in back, the tanks up front, and the vulnerables in the middle.

sbb
I would recommend the following formation
Fighter on Right Flank
Samurai in Left Flank
Ranger and Bard in middle
Gadgeteer and Bishop in back.

If you give your Bishop and extended reach weapon, he will be able to get into melee. Just remember with this formation to keep your back to a wall during any fights with non range attack monsters.

Samurai_Zeke · 02-23-2002, 03:51 AM

"standard" formation not very good.

Tried "flat" formation, didn't like it. I run a party of 6, samuari & monk up front. bard and ranger with bows on the flanks, and bishop and gadgeteer in the center. works pretty good IMHO.

Also the idea of using terrain is ALWAYS good. Personally like corners the best, keeps all the nasties up fron for a good "cone" area spell. Keeps many of them from attacking me at once, reducing the damage I receive, and I can concetrate on them killing them off one/two at a time. The tighter the angle the better. That way less badguys biting/hacking/punching you at once.

thers is no "right" way to play, and you can change during a fight with minimal problems too if you need.

Have fun!

Annheiser · 02-23-2002, 06:27 AM

I run a full group of 6 with 2 RPCs constantly, and I'm much more combat-oriented with one disabler. My setup is generally like this...

Front Shell - Empty
Left Flank - Monk (fists), Valkyrie (polearms)
Right Flank - Lord (dualwield), Bard (sword & shield)
Center Shell - Fighter (2hsword), Samurai (dualwield), Ranger (bows and whips)
Rear Shell - Bishop (staves)

Because I rely more on melee, everyone here has a chance to fight while my Bishop and Bard handles the disabling actions. I rarely ever get caught off-guard so this works for me.

SubEffect · 02-23-2002, 05:59 PM

The only reasons I didn't go without a "front flank" is because some of my characters aren't that good at being tanks. I think, though, since 4/8 of my party are melee class, i may give it a shot.

I'm averaging level 19 or so now, so I still have some time to switch and see if its worth using. I think someone else hit the nail on the head though, terrain and placement is king.

If you can't use the terrain to your advantage, you are kinda stuck spreading everyone out, but if you can back into a corner, you can put up a nice line of defenses to guard the caster types in the back, and it really does make those offensive spells work best.

I have a psionic who has a good number of offensive 'cone' type spells, which she blasts from the back when all the mobs are lined up just right and it's devastating.

Annheiser · 02-23-2002, 09:09 PM

Well regardless if a group has a front shell or not, everyone has a chance to be hit except for the rear shell if you do put people in the front shell. So having a formation like so, Front - Flanks - Center would have the same results as Flanks - Center - Rear, except the latter you can have more melee. Of course if you're engaged with long ranged mobs, any formation is kind of pointless because they can hit anybody.

Corners are always a great place to fight, and doors, or if you can't find any, fight with your back to a wall.

02-22-2002, 01:14 PM	#1
sbb Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: February 12, 2002 Location: Spokane, Wa Posts: 7	I received Wiz8 in the mail yesterday, and I'm just getting started. My party consists of: Dracon Fighter Human Samurai Felpurr Gadget. Hobbit Bard Mook Ranger Elf Bishop I am looking for suggestions for setting my party formation. I only remember reading one thing about it - that I can leave the forward position empty, and then every one in the center and the flanks can melee (forward). I'm just looking to see if the basic default formations are OK, or if I need to tweak them. Like, for example, if I put my Fighter and Samurai up front, my Bard on one flank and my Gadgeteer on the other, my Ranger in back, and my Bishop in the middle - does this effectively isolate my Bishop from melee? Thanks in advance.... -sbb __________________ \"A theory has only the alternative of being right or wrong. A model has a third possibility: it may be right, but irrelevant.\"<br />-M.Eigen

02-22-2002, 01:55 PM	#3
DraconisRex Avatar Join Date: January 4, 2002 Location: On my rear-end. Posts: 563	Tyntonk: It works. I'm soloing with a Ninja using just martial arts right now. No problems from playing from the center position. HOWEVER, I don't like the non-forward formation. If you get surrounded, you're screwed. Better to put your formation like this: F1 F2 F3 C1 FL C2 C3 FR XX F1... = Front-line fighter-type. FL = Flanker Left (missile/fighter class) FR = Flanker Right (same as FL) C1... = Center character (mage/bard) If surrounded, drop one of the F1 through F3 characters to the back rank. (XX position) You can't do that from the flat-line formation without moving almost all of your party and probably having some of your characters killed. __________________ Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?<br /><br />Vah! Denuone Latine loquebar? Me ineptum. Interdum modo elabitur.<br /><br />Di! Ecce hora! Uxor mea me necabit!

02-22-2002, 05:02 PM	#5
Pyrates Drow Warrior Join Date: February 3, 2002 Location: Muenster Age: 46 Posts: 287	Hi Guys! What worked for me well is putting 3 fighters each in the left and the right part, and my two bishops in the back rank (I have 2 NPC's). If I'm standing before a monster, everybody can attack... Has some disadvantages, too. My bishops begin every fight standing in the wrong direction, so are attacked from behind, which is double damage. Also, if you get surrounded, they are in no good position. Before that I had the two bishops in the middle, Bard and Gadgeteer and the back rank, one fighter with an extended weapon in the middle, too, and the other ones in the front. Was nice and safe, but now all weapons are short ranged (even my one bishop has one, pretty nice thing ), so I had to change something and am pretty happy with that. Never forget your towel, cheers Philipp __________________ \" ... and the Vogon will do things to you that you wish you\'d never been born, or, if you\'re a clearer minded thinker, that the Vogon had never been born.\"

02-23-2002, 03:51 AM	#7
Samurai_Zeke Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: January 9, 2002 Location: California City, CA Posts: 13	"standard" formation not very good. Tried "flat" formation, didn't like it. I run a party of 6, samuari & monk up front. bard and ranger with bows on the flanks, and bishop and gadgeteer in the center. works pretty good IMHO. Also the idea of using terrain is ALWAYS good. Personally like corners the best, keeps all the nasties up fron for a good "cone" area spell. Keeps many of them from attacking me at once, reducing the damage I receive, and I can concetrate on them killing them off one/two at a time. The tighter the angle the better. That way less badguys biting/hacking/punching you at once. thers is no "right" way to play, and you can change during a fight with minimal problems too if you need. Have fun! __________________ strike first...strike often

02-23-2002, 06:27 AM	#8
Annheiser Manshoon Join Date: February 8, 2002 Location: USA Posts: 154	I run a full group of 6 with 2 RPCs constantly, and I'm much more combat-oriented with one disabler. My setup is generally like this... Front Shell - Empty Left Flank - Monk (fists), Valkyrie (polearms) Right Flank - Lord (dualwield), Bard (sword & shield) Center Shell - Fighter (2hsword), Samurai (dualwield), Ranger (bows and whips) Rear Shell - Bishop (staves) Because I rely more on melee, everyone here has a chance to fight while my Bishop and Bard handles the disabling actions. I rarely ever get caught off-guard so this works for me. __________________ \"Man who sleeps with itchy bum wakes with smelly fingers.\"

02-22-2002, 01:29 PM	#2
TYTONK Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: February 12, 2002 Location: TWINSBURG, OH Posts: 48	I tried the "leaving the forward position empty" deal and it did not work for me at all! I could not get close enough for my dudes in the center to melee unless they had extended weapons. Has anyone else had a different experience? Maybe I will try it again if enough people confirm that it works.

02-22-2002, 02:06 PM	#4
SubEffect Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: February 22, 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 27	You can think of the areas on the formation chart like shells. I think if you have anything in the outer "shell" in front of the center, it takes up that whole "shell" so essentially anything behind it is in a second rank. If there is nothing, then the center has direct access through.. Personally I keep to the tried and true method of putting the tanks in front (lord, fighter, etc, and rogue since daggers have extremely short ranges) and putting a polearm user (I have two) in the center guarding my mage. My cleric and monk are on the side flanks and no one behind. This way, everyone can reach and the mage is somewhat protected on all sides and really only gets nailed by missle attacks. I have: Dwarven Lord, Felpurr Samarai, and a Dracon Rogue in front, then Faerie Psionic, Elven Ranger and Vi (Valkyrie) in the middle, then Dwarven Priest and the NPC Monk on the sides. Vi is an NPC... and the monk, well I don't want to spoil anything. I know there are better race combos, but I like to actually stray from powergaming and play what sounds fun. Good luck...

02-22-2002, 05:18 PM	#6
MaskedFrog Drow Warrior Join Date: November 28, 2001 Location: Madison, CT Posts: 292	I played through most of the game without a front. My configuration was as follows: Samurai and RPC on Left Flank Ranger in Middle Ninja and RPC on Right Flank Gadgeteer, Bishop, and Psionic in Back. The trick to this formation is to always stay near terrain until you are above level 20. As soon as a fight starts with non-ranged attack monsters run to the terrain and place your back against it. This completely protects your back rank from attacks except extended and range. It also means you can effective have more than 3 characters on the front line. This is a more advanced formation and requires you to think a little bit about your placement. If you do not want to worry about your position, I one person in each side flank, one person in back, the tanks up front, and the vulnerables in the middle. sbb I would recommend the following formation Fighter on Right Flank Samurai in Left Flank Ranger and Bard in middle Gadgeteer and Bishop in back. If you give your Bishop and extended reach weapon, he will be able to get into melee. Just remember with this formation to keep your back to a wall during any fights with non range attack monsters.

02-23-2002, 05:59 PM	#9
SubEffect Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: February 22, 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 27	The only reasons I didn't go without a "front flank" is because some of my characters aren't that good at being tanks. I think, though, since 4/8 of my party are melee class, i may give it a shot. I'm averaging level 19 or so now, so I still have some time to switch and see if its worth using. I think someone else hit the nail on the head though, terrain and placement is king. If you can't use the terrain to your advantage, you are kinda stuck spreading everyone out, but if you can back into a corner, you can put up a nice line of defenses to guard the caster types in the back, and it really does make those offensive spells work best. I have a psionic who has a good number of offensive 'cone' type spells, which she blasts from the back when all the mobs are lined up just right and it's devastating.

02-23-2002, 09:09 PM	#10
Annheiser Manshoon Join Date: February 8, 2002 Location: USA Posts: 154	Well regardless if a group has a front shell or not, everyone has a chance to be hit except for the rear shell if you do put people in the front shell. So having a formation like so, Front - Flanks - Center would have the same results as Flanks - Center - Rear, except the latter you can have more melee. Of course if you're engaged with long ranged mobs, any formation is kind of pointless because they can hit anybody. Corners are always a great place to fight, and doors, or if you can't find any, fight with your back to a wall. __________________ \"Man who sleeps with itchy bum wakes with smelly fingers.\"

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