Persistent headaches...

[Tarlanon]

O.k. Maybe I let my imagination get away from me, from time to time....

But I had a wild idea....

I'm sure most of us have had, or currently have experience in the MMORPG genre (Everquest, Asheron's Call, Dark Age of Camelot, etc.) and they are all fun and grand.

What about creating a 'Persistent' world in DungeonCraft? What the heck do I mean? Well, I mean, create a 'world', populate it with peoples, towns, dungeons, etc. Then every once and a while, 'update' the world with new quests, people, adventures, etc. Granted, there won't be any other players in the world to interact with, but you could conceivably create a party of adventurers who exist in this world, who get to interact with the changes in it whenever a new 'update' becomes available. I guess what I am asking is, 'Is this feasible' in DC?

I dunno...Any thoughts?

[manikus]

i've been thinking about a venture like this ever since it was first talked about in a frua newsletter 6 or 7 years ago. i've even started working on my own 'public dungeon'.
with that said, there are a few speedbumps with doing this in dc at this time.
1.) databases- they would have to be the same from the get go, or the characters would not be able to continue on.
2.) levels- see above. plus we would have to put up the whole level again just to add a little quest.

these are not impossible, or even difficult, to overcome. they would just take a little planning at the start, or maybe just a rule that the default databases would be used. and now that i think about it, re-uploading a level might be very small if it does not include the artwork and sounds, etc.

[img]graemlins/1druid.gif[/img]

-manikus

[Tarlanon]

I think it could very easily be done with the right planning. What I was thinking was a 'Worlds of DungeonCraft' or something like that. Say there are 5 people in the Project. 1 Person would serve as the project co-cordinator and the central point of contact. Each of the other 4 'Developers' would each have their own 'world' at their disposal, each world accessed by the players via a Level 1 Dungeon called the 'Nexus' or something like that. It could be a room with like 4 portals in it. From there, each developer could be assigned a block of levels for their world (i.e. Dev 1 gets levels 2-20, Dev 2 gets 21-40, etc.) and each of the portals in the Nexus portals to the starting levels in each block. That could solve the problem of how PCs get around.

From there you could assign the same technique for Quests, special items, etc. That way each dev could do whatever they wanted, without risking overlap with the other worlds, and it would help to make the PCs transferrable between worlds without the need for transferring save files to different designs. That was a single save file can be used for all 'worlds'.

Now, to the problem of databases....I think the best was to solve that problem would be to have a central database which all worlds use, maintained by the co-ordinator. So if a dev needs to create a new item, spell or monster, he/she would mail the co-ordinator with the specs, any art/sound files and the co-ordinator will integrate them into the database and redistribute the database to all the devs. Am I making sense yet?

Anyway, like you said I think it can be done, it would just require some planning.

[manikus]

i like your idea. the nexus could even be like a mini town with a place to rest and a place to heal...

my main concern with the databases is that once a character has been created, they may not work with a design using a different database. (richard has pretty explicit on this.) a change in databases may also mess up quest variables and the such. (that's a big 'may') so the thing to do would be to have the database defined, including any potential extras that the designers could think of for future use, before the characters start off on thier first adventure.

if others are into this, count me in too. heck, i might be interested in putting up a 'public dungeon' page on my site with public sections and private sections for the designers.

[img]graemlins/1druid.gif[/img]

-manikus

[Tarlanon]

Yeah, the biggest hurdle would be the databases. Which is why I am wondering if a centralized database is the way to go. The Co-ordinator maintains a master database of information (monsters, quests, items, etc.) and when a Dev needs to change/add things, he/she does so through the co-ordinator. The Dev sends the required info to the coordinator, the co-ordinator enters the info into the master database then mails a new copy of the changed DB to each dev, thus ensuring each dev is using the latest information. It would be CRITICAL that the developer makes no changes to the databases. (Hence planning ahead in your design would be REALLY important) That way, everyone would be designing with the same databases, and that should (Help me out here CocoaSpud) ensure compatibility with the char files/save games.

The nice thing about this 'World' is that updates would be small. Just packing the changed files and unpacking them in the .dsn directory would be all that is required I think.

Hmmm...Me thinks I'm getting an itch.

Any more thoughts? Ideas? Hiccups?

One other idea I had too...It might be a good idea for a dev to make sure that the player can start from scratch again and be able to still play through everything from the beginning (again, mucho mucho planning). Although, as long as the storyline fits....

That's the other thing...Storyline...Would it be important?

[manikus]

it seems like the most difficult part will be the planning, whether for databases or for characters from scratch...as for the latter, would this really be an issue that we would need to plan for, or maybe we could do a one time trainer event-> something like giving the character a bunch of experience points linked to a training hall, linked to a text event with a story up to this point. maybe you would eventually need several.

this will have to be something that is really thought about. it's quite conceivable that a party could advance quite a bit in 'area 1' than move to area 2 which another developer has designed for low level characters and walk right through without a single challenge...

ya, this definitely sounds like a cool idea

[img]graemlins/1druid.gif[/img]

-manikus

[Tarlanon]

As far as the characters go, The idea of a high level party walking happily through a low level one is something that happens even in the Big MMORPGs. And by the same token, you could have low level characters walk into a family of Beholders. The dangers of the world, I guess. But in most cases, I would assume each dev would have some areas for even low level characters. The biggest thing would be to allow characters to roam freely, just like they can in MMORPGs. Having a world with a linear storyline would be pointless. Obviously, when designing these worlds, heavy emphasis would probably need to be put into the NPC development and interaction, as opposed to a 'traditional' story driven game. Quite a task, but I think it can be done.

What would be great at this point is some CocoaSpud type input on this idea.

[SilentThief]

This idea is a great one, and similar to something I was contemplating. I was thinking with the ideas I have, if anyone liked the gaming worlds I have in mind or the mods I want to do then I would use some quest variables to do continuity. As in the choices you make at the beginning of your adventuring career impact (or haunt) you later. I think this (and the sheer volume and attention to detail) was why Forgotten Realms was such a popular world, because the writers had to pay attention (at least a little) with what other writers were doing.

As for the non-linear storyline, the more forced the characters choices are the less interesting the story may be (I said "may"). TSR had a wonderful product out that was called the DMs guide to Villains, and it gives the idea of creating the villain first, and then building the adventure from the actions of the villian. So, several adventures (not necessarily in any order) could be all due to the powergrabs of one person or one group and the characters success isn't based upon step one, step two, ect but countering these moves the enemy makes. The characters could stop one plot in one town, and never get to one in a second area, but still do one in another, and (by following continuity) the enemy could call up reserves from the plot in the second area.



As for the database idea, with more than one writer you have to have a "project overseer", but you would have to have designers voice opinion on powerful items. I wouldn't see how giving your player a healing potion would upset anything, but give them an artifact of legenday godlike power or even a vorpal sword and that is a little different. The whole issue of "monty haul" vrs "tight wad" campaigns comes up here.

I think the idea of a group project is a good one, and I would like to participate (assuming I get my friggin machine working right). you might have a bunch of designers lined up for this, but with a little work, it could turn into a great design.

Silentthief