Matrix:Reloaded Review Comments..SPOILERS!!!!!!!

<font color="#f683ad">well I saw it yesterday and really liked it...give it 7 of 10. I was a dumb ass and didn't stay through all the credits so missed the previews at the end...Note to everyone..stay till the credits are done.

There were some nits I want to pick. And comments to make.

1. Neo's fight #1 with multiple Mr. Smiths..people ask why not just fly away...or run away...my take was this..Neo being in fact "SuperMan of the Matrix" knew he wasn't in any real danger..in fact he was never actually hurt..notice no blood, no hair mussed, and his sunglasses didn't even get disturbed...he was basicly just "having fun" playing Superman with all the Mr. Smiths..and was never in any real danger and he knew it. The only surprise they had for him were the "upgrades" and the attempt at cloning...which failed.

2. The fight scenes with Morpheous and Trinity..all seemed....lack luster and half hearted and maybe half speed.....don't know exactly why got this impression..but it just never looked like they were really breaking a sweat.

3. Neo's fight in the "stair case room" Neo should not need any weapons...as the first movie ended with him being "master" of the matrix, he should be able to block the swords with his hands andnot get cut...bullets should bounce off and basicly he should be immune to any physical attack made against him inside the Matrix.

4. The Ghost twins.....why were they able to fight on the level of agents? Morpheous and Trinity should have been able to do better.


My conclusion (not having seent he previews for Matrix 3) are this...Neo ends up still in the Matrix..or we find out that what we were thinking reality was...was actually another matrix that had the original matrix within it.


My question...Did Neo pick the door to Save trinity? or did he pick the other door...and then break the rules and save trinity anyway? I always thought he owuld heal her..snce in the Matrix he should be able to do anything he can imagine......</font>

[Timber Loftis]

Neo picked the door to save Trinity. Thus, the Matrix will not "reload" as the anomoly is programmed to do. Supposedly the love Neo has found separates him from his 5 predecessors.

I was much more impressed by this movie than you.

The fights scenes were as super-hero as they can be. Neo wasn't just toying with the agents (though the metallic clunks when he would bat them 100 ft. were great). Fighting in the Matrix has to do with how fast you can think the program. To "explode" them like he did Smith is to muck with their program, which as we've seen can have unexpected results. It also takes a lot of concentration to kill one in that way. So, why fight with the weapons? Because he can bleed - as you saw. It's all about the tools he can use to "think" his super-hero moves faster. If he has a weapon, the use of it comes more easily because he's trained -- less to think about.

Because the super-hero stuff can only entertain so much, the next movie will have most of its fight scenes on the scorched planet. - Except that Neo v. 10000 Smiths we see at the end of the trailers (sorry you missed it, bub )

If you want to talk the deeper meaning of the movie or the sequence of events in this SPOILER-Labelled thread folks, feel free.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by MagiK: 1. Neo's fight #1 with multiple Mr. Smiths..people ask why not just fly away...or run away...my take was this..Neo being in fact "SuperMan of the Matrix" knew he wasn't in any real danger..in fact he was never actually hurt..notice no blood, no hair mussed, and his sunglasses didn't even get disturbed...he was basicly just "having fun" playing Superman with all the Mr. Smiths..and was never in any real danger and he knew it. The only surprise they had for him were the "upgrades" and the attempt at cloning...which failed.

maybe not a failure. Smith, now a rogue, can assimilate other agents. Maybe his search for PURPOSE will remake the Matrix.

Neo can bleed. It takes a lot of thinking to overcome death and wounds in the Matrix -- I mentioned this above. It's about brain and will power.

2. The fight scenes with Morpheous and Trinity..all seemed....lack luster and half hearted and maybe half speed.....don't know exactly why got this impression..but it just never looked like they were really breaking a sweat.

The fight scenes entertained me fine. I thought they were well-coreographed. Trinity actually did more fighting this time -- and that babe can kick my ass anyday she likes.

3. Neo's fight in the "stair case room" Neo should not need any weapons...as the first movie ended with him being "master" of the matrix, he should be able to block the swords with his hands andnot get cut...bullets should bounce off and basicly he should be immune to any physical attack made against him inside the Matrix.

As I said, it takes an exercise of mental and will power.

4. The Ghost twins.....why were they able to fight on the level of agents? Morpheous and Trinity should have been able to do better.

Well, as Persephone mentioned they are rogue Agent programs from the early days of the Matrix. They were made to be enforcers. They could probably kick an Agent's butt, actually, which is why they are left alone. They are the ghosts that the Oracle mentions.

My conclusion (not having seent he previews for Matrix 3) are this...Neo ends up still in the Matrix..or we find out that what we were thinking reality was...was actually another matrix that had the original matrix within it.

Yep. Either that OR... get this.... maybe the whole notion is one of the strenght of will to power. Maybe it is a new Matrix, or maybe the message is that in the real world there are some extraordinary things those with strong minds and wills can do.

Personally, I can see the computer writing layers within layers of the Matrix. Note the opening credits. The one streaming-text matrix is going by, then we zoom back to see it in a rectangular linear streat with 10 others like it, zoom back more and we sam many strings, each having 10 or 20 matrices in it, running every which way. Zoom back further and we find all those matrices are actually contained in the dot of an i on a computer screen. Can we use the word MATRIX without implicating this kind of mathematical extrapolation??

[Rokenn]

Just saw it last night, I'd give it a 8/10, maybe higher after a reviewing or two. There is a lot going on in this movie, one thing I want to look for in a reviewing are the seeming throwaway comments that are foreshadowing.

I definitely agree that the world of Zion and the Machines is shell Matrix containing the primary one. A few of the reasons why:
1) the ending scene with the sentinels
2) the rebel that Agent Smith assimilated was still somehow under his control even outside 'the Matrix'.
3) the very fact that the machines are trying to stop Neo and the other rebels. If his existence merely meant the 'reloading' of the Matrix, why would they care?
4) Agent Smith intimated that he know the real truth and Neo did not. And that Smith is still trying to stop Neo. With his seeming level of access to the Matrix and it's backdoors why would he care about the Matrix being restarted?
5) The fact that Hugo Weaving has some of the best line in the movie [img]smile.gif[/img]
6) The oracle tells Neo he has the sight, but the majority of his visions occur outside the Matrix.
7) The Council sent two ships, and it turns out that is exactly how many they needed to stage the final assault to get Neo to the Architect.

Was anyone else touched by the reception Neo got when getting off the elevator in Zion?

I'm still trying to figure out if the Councilors lecture to Neo on how men and machine needed each is a foreshadow of how the series is going to end.


Another fun tidbit the person playing Councillor West is Cornel West, who is a philosophy professor at Princeton. And also the person whose works the Wachowski's tapped for the second movie
And the Oscar for Best Scholar . . .

[Timber Loftis]

Yep, they're big fans of Professor West. They specifically wrote his part into the movie. I think that we may see Smith be some type of machine/man integration -- maybe a program that enters the mind and doesn't leave when you unplug?? Maybe it could happen inside the "shell" matrix or in a "real" world.

The rabbit hole is deep indeed.

<font color="#f683ad"> Cool info Rokenn [img]smile.gif[/img] I will have to go see this again of course, this time to watch the ending credits and look for some of the harder to spot aspects of the movie.....Still the Morpheous and Trinity fights left me wanting......need to watcht he originial and the fights Morpheous had and compare...</font>

[ 05-19-2003, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

<font color="#f683ad"> Looks like there is as many ways to look at this stuff as there are matrixes in matrices. </font>

[Timber Loftis]

Why did the "perfect" Matrix fail? Simple: with only good results, there is no need for CHOICE. In the "flawed" real world, choice, and the results of choice, are paramount -- and define us. I think there is a huge point being made about this. This is why the matrix had to include flaws, and, quite possibly (via extrapolation) why the matrix had to have a rogue program that would resurface via the Oracle and the Prophecy every so often. Maybe the very CHOICE Neo was given is a lynchpin for the whole affair.

Without a founding that is based on CHOICE, down the extent that reloading the Matrix is based on Choice by the One, the matrix itself would fail?? [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]

[Rokenn]

oh, and did you notice that the candy that the Oracle gave Neo (and ate herself), was red and looked just like the red pill that Neo took in the first movie?

[ 05-19-2003, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Rokenn ]

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Why did the "perfect" Matrix fail? Simple: with only good results, there is no need for CHOICE. In the "flawed" real world, choice, and the results of choice, are paramount -- and define us. I think there is a huge point being made about this. This is why the matrix had to include flaws, and, quite possibly (via extrapolation) why the matrix had to have a rogue program that would resurface via the Oracle and the Prophecy every so often. Maybe the very CHOICE Neo was given is a lynchpin for the whole affair. Without a founding that is based on CHOICE, down the extent that reloading the Matrix is based on Choice by the One, the matrix itself would fail?? [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]

Yes Choice is most certainly the cornerstone of the Matrix. I loved how they showed this in the conversation with the Architect. All of Neo's possible reactions appeared on the monitors, then they would use the 'zoom through the tv screen' effect to show which path he took. Also each choice had the screens of the choice beyond that one.

It's almost like Neo is the embodiment of the Uncertainty Principal.