Sauron vs. Lord Foul

[Tancred]

Something I worte a long time ago. I'm going to post it, because I like it. So there!

'This is a much, much more complex issue than any of you really realise.
Firstly one must take into account that Sauron and Foul are two
different types of entity. I believe another poster certainly asserted
so. However, I do not believe that Lord Foul's power is directly
related to the amount of belief a character has in him. Foul is a
manifestation of the dark side of human nature, and from there springs
his power; the power to trap people in their own worst selves. Covenant
is capable of defeating Foul because Covenant believes Foul to be only
an externalised part of himself, not the brother of the Creator as
Mhoram asserts. This gives him the key to understanding the paradox of
white gold; it does not lessen Foul's hold upon him.
Sauron, on the other hand, is far more self-complete than Foul. Far
from being a concentrated knot of anger and emotion given a malicious
sentience like Foul, Sauron is one of the Maia, a demigod, independant
of anything mortal. While this means Sauron is unable to manipulate his
foes like his counterpart, he has much more might within himself, even
without the One Ring. Foul, by contrast, seems to need periapts and
banes to work his power, like the Illearth Stone or the White Gold.
Extending this logically, the pair are rather evenly matched. Sauron
could defeat Foul in direct combat, but I doubt Foul would let such a
thing come to pass. Foul often avoids such things. After all, he
neglects to strike at the weakened Quest for the Staff in Gravin
Threndor, even after Mhoram challenges him (Mad bloke, is Mhoram. He
cries out, challenging the most powerful being on the planet at that
time, when surely a sensible and understandable cry might have been
'Yikes! It's the Despiser! Run for it!'). Foul could even manipulate
Sauron if pushed, I am sure...
However, the issue of the Nazgul vs. the Ravers is a different kettle
of cod. Nazgul victory, no question. The Ravers would be unable to
possess any of the Nazgul, as Sauron beat them to it; the power of the
Nine Rings keeps them under his sway, come what may. Even if a Raver
managed to defeat the hold of the Ring over a Nazgul long enough to
possess it, the Raver too would fall under Sauron's sway in time due to
the presence of one of the Nine Rings. Even if they remained non-
corporeal, the Nazgul would be able to track the Ravers thanks to their
extra-sensory perceptive abilities and their status as wraiths. Once
cornered, the Ravers are really pathetic, having no true powers of
their own.
An interesting slant on this argument is that Foul and Sauron would
actually do much better in each other's place. Foul would have a field
day reducing the morale of the Company of the Ring to mush, as well as
driving characters to despair and back. Would the end of Eowyn be as
memorable if Foul was in charge? Even Saurin managed to drive Denethor
into despair, so Foul shouldn't need to lift a finger.
The Ravers are potentially more dangerous than the Nazgul, given their
power to go anywhere and possess anything - no Bloodguard or Giants to
mess things up. Trying to possess a Ringbearer such as Gandalf, Elrond
or Galadriel might be impossible for them, as it might be to possess
anyone with considerable willpower, but characters like Boromir,
Butterbur, Denethor etc. would be easy pickings. No overflowing of the
Bruinen is going to slow down a Raver, as they are essentially non-
corporeal. Nothing like the lomillallor test of truth exists on Middle-
Earth, either.
Sauron, on the other hand, is far more unimaginative than Foul, and
this is a positive advantage. There are several occasions where Foul's
need to see his enemies humiliated and emotionally crushed have
defeated him (letting Covenant into the Throne-hall, the over-long
siege of Revelstone), whereas Sauron's heavy-handed tactics would have
prevailed. Would Revelstone have been able to endure if set upon by the
FLYING Nazgul, the multitudes of Sauron's hosts and something like the
terrible Ghrond all at once? Although the Giants would still be around
- Sauron lacks the evil genius necessary to pull off a mass suicide
like Foul did - at least the Giants and the Trolls would be on more
equal footing, unlike the Ents, who really ARE hard. And, let's face
it, the Nazgul would have cut Covenant and Atiaran to shreds long
before they got near Soaring Woodhelven. The Nazgul use conventional
swords, so Covenant's formidable reflexive defences against any magical
attacks wouldn't work. Neither would the 'Oh no! They've got FIRE! We
can't attack them!' problem of Nazgul design be a factor, as the people
of the Land don't light fires. And, while the Giant-Ravers empowered by
the Illearth Stone are a powerful trio, they are fundamentally bound by
the mortal frames they take, rendering them more vulnerable than the
immortal, almost indestructible Nazgul. As for the Lords, if Gandalf
could not withstand all the Nine at once, than the Lords of Revelstone
certainly couldn't.
Food for thought, anyway. Things might be more equal, though, if for
the sake of argument, both Dark Lords won in their respective worlds
and came into conflict, Foul with the White Gold and Sauron with the
One Ring. Who knows what might occur then? if anyone is crazy enough to
waste their strength on trying to forecast the result, go ahead...'

[Seid]

Great Job! It was really interesting. BTW what book is Foul from? I read Lord of the rings so I wander if the Lord Foul's book is good too.

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You cannot escape the inevitable.

[Melusine]

Tancred, it sounds interesting and well thought-through but like Seid I have no idea who Lord Foul is. So before I'm going to read on, please tell us!

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Melusine, High Queen of Fluffies, Archbabe of the OHF, the LH,
the HADB and the SPAE(Society for the
Prevention of Acronym Extinction) &
Official Entertainer Elf of the BG2 Bar

Your voice is ambrosia
Amy Brown Fantasy Art

[Tancred]

Lord Foul; the Big Bad Guy of the much-maligned Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. Worth a look, not for the quality of the writing - which REALLLLLLLY drags - but for the rather unique take on the 'Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court' theme by making the Yankee a leper. Lord Foul is either the avatar of despite and self-hatred imprisoned on the mortal realm by his brother, the Creator, or simply a manifestation of Covenant's dark side. It depends how you read the book.

[Davros]

Some good thoughts there Tancred. Unfortunately I am going to have to dash for work now - will give it some better thought when I get back in the afternoon.

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