What to play next.

[Target]

HI.

Right, I would like some help. I played NWN when it first came out and finished it with a Dwarf barbarian, I then got half way through it with a human monk, until my computer died. I’ve now got it going fine and am enjoying playing Wizardry 8 at the moment, but when I finish that I want to go back to NWN. I’ve also bought the first official expansion module (SoU).
As I’ve not played it in a while I’d like some help/suggestion for a new character.

I really enjoyed playing the monk, but I’d also like to try some magic so have thought about using a Druid. I’d also like to take this character through the original quest, then SoU then HotU. Is that possible? Or would it be better to get a new one for the 2 mods?
Would a Monk Druid be possible? Or would that loose the best bits of each. Should I stay as one class and wait for the prestige classes to become available? And does race make a vast difference?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Stratos]

Originally posted by Target: HI.

Hi!

I really enjoyed playing the monk, but I’d also like to try some magic so have thought about using a Druid. I’d also like to take this character through the original quest, then SoU then HotU. Is that possible? Or would it be better to get a new one for the 2 mods?

Technically you can play SoU with the same character as with NWN, but SoU is made to start with a level 1 character and would be too easy with a higher level one. It's also a completely differrent story than the original NWN. HotU is a sequel to the SoU story and you can use the same character if you like.

Would a Monk Druid be possible? Or would that loose the best bits of each.

A Monk can only be lawful and a Druid has to have some measure of neutrality in him, so a Lawful Neutral Monk/Druid is the only viable choice. I do believe that the Monks unarmed bonuses applies to the Druid's differrent shifted forms, but I'm not sure about this. Both benefits from a high Wisdom score, though, so it might be a good multiclass.

Should I stay as one class and wait for the prestige classes to become available?

If you want to stay as one class or not is all up to you, and it has more to do what you want to play personally and what the specific build is rather than a general tip whether you should stay single class or not. Just remember that, whatever you multiclass with, you have to meet the requirements of the prestige class.

And does race make a vast difference?

What race you play will affect ability scores, immunities and give various racial bonuses. It does generally not affect prestige classes, your class is a more deciding factor, but there are exceptions; Arcane Archers (SoU) can only be elves or half-elves and Dwarven Defenders (HotU) can only be dwarves.

[ 12-16-2003, 09:33 AM: Message edited by: Stratos ]

[ScottG]

You should really get HOTU b4 you start playing again, the game looks a little better but more importantly you have 6 more prestige classes to choose from AND you have several new feats and skills. (and you might want to check out the post below on "Concerning Prestige classes".

If you go through the original NWN's and then save that character at the end then you can start either of the new modules with it. HOWEVER SOU is only designed to have a character started from the beginning (i.e. level 1). HOTU on the other hand "recomends" starting with a level 15 character, but if your up to level 20 by the end of NWN's then you can still start your level 20 character in HOTU w/out any real negatives. And of course you can also create your own character for each module.

As for Monk and Magic try my post here:
http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/cg...;f=26;t=000080

BUT its really only for development of SOU alone. I would (and did) significantly change the character for HOTU though it still relies on the class combination + a RDD (but the attributes, skills, and feats are quite a bit different).

[ 12-17-2003, 12:16 AM: Message edited by: ScottG ]

[Target]

Thanks for the replies. I didn’t know that HOTU followed on from SOU.
So a new plan. Can’t afford to buy a new game so will start with SoU. (Unless Santa is good to me this year).
SoU it is. I like the idea of the Monk Sorcerer. Sounds like fun. Never played a magic use on NWN’s so hope I don’t get confused with the spells and things. Do you think a Monk Bard would work just as well? That could be interesting as well…

A few other questions, About which level do you finish SoU? And If HotU is meant to start at level 15 or so, is there some way included to create a character that high? Would like to play that RDD looks like a lot of fun. Would a bard work as well for that? Shame can’t play one in SoU. And what are those Epic things?

Cheers

[Stratos]

Monks can only be lawful, while a Bard can be anything BUT lawful so a Monk/Bard is not a viable option. Technically it is possible to make a multiclass like this, you just wont be able to level up in the class that breaks his alignment restriction. So you could start as a neutral good Bard, do some lawful things in the game to change to lawful good and then level up as a Monk. But you wouldn't be able to level up as a Bard again until you become non-lawful again.

I don't know at which level you end SoU, I'm just working through it myself, but I assume it's around level 12. When you start HotU you will get enough xp to level up to level 15 if you're not that high already.
You might also check out any of the bridging modules after you've finished SoU and before you start HotU. There was recently a competition amongst builders to create a module that takes you from the end of SoU to the beginning of HotU. It's supposed to be level 12-15 module to fill in the gap between the two expansions.

Bards work just as well as Sorcerers if you want to become a RDD, I'm playing one right now and is soon to take levels as a RDD. You CAN play a RDD in SoU, but only if you have HotU installed.

BTW which Epic things? Do you mean the spells, the feats or the classes?

[ 12-17-2003, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: Stratos ]

[ScottG]

Everything Stratos has said except that Bards aren't as good as Sorcerers - at least not for the Monk. The spells aren't the same, neither is the quantity or the class level at which you recieve them. (Don't take my word for it - just look back in the original manual at the end where it shows Bard's and Sorcerer's spells versus level tables.) In particular the spell true strike isn't available to a Bard (and its very important against very high AC opponents), nor is the spell shield. The one spell that has real value that a Bard has in SOU is wounding whispers - BUT it isn't available until Bard level 8. With 2 levels of Monk you'll be near the end of the game (SOU) by the time you get it and a Sorcerer gets access to element shield at the same time.

For SOU it depends on if you played with or without a henchmen. I played without and I finished at level 13.

[Target]

Cheers,
I think I will hold off starting until I get HotU. That would make more sense to me. But when I get it I'm defently going to play the Monk/Sorcerers/RDD. That seems a lot of fun. Once you have those installed can you use the extra feats/spells/classes in the oridginal quest?
I was also quite interested in the shifter class. Is that just like a Druid add on or is there more to it than that?
As for the Epic bit, just wondereed what it is, is it something you can only get after level 20?

[ScottG]

Here is what I did...

Play through SOU with the character I mentioned in the post. (or something else)

Then I made a character in the leveler mod I linked to in the post below "Concerning Prestige Classes". I then very carefully leveled that character up to level 20. (see below.)

Then I saved that character and then opened up my own "treasure" module to equip the character with items I made.. (items that also look a LOT better).

(For making your own treasure module: just follow the module wizard on making the smallest module possible in the Toolset, then use the item wizards to make your items, then use the placeable wizard to make your chests, then place the custom items you made into the inventory of the chests. It may take an hour or two to figure it out the basics here of the Toolset, but the time expenditure is WELL worth it. BTW, you really shouldn't go beyond level 20 for any of your items when you create them.)

Then I saved the character with the equiped items.

Then I played HOTU with the saved character with the equiped items. (though HOTU does strip your items at the beginning of the game - you'll get them back again near the end of chap. 1. ... However only so many items are allowed to be retrived - for my character that translated into everthing worn + an extra set of gauntlets, but no weapons (though a monk doesn't need them).

The reason I went to level 20 (and also why I suggest playing SOU as itself) is that the character you optimize for SOU vs. the character you optimize for HOTU really won't be the same because of the RDD expert class. The RDD by itself is a nice add-on for getting extra attributes, immunity to fire, and wings - otherwise it really isn't a "class". Because of this (and the fact that it takes 10 levels to max the thing) you shouldn't play it for SOU. Its also one reason I have no problems taking a level 20 character into HOTU, (the other is that I want to see the character up at around level 30 by the end of HOTU). Remember the key class levels are still your 2 levels in Monk and the rest in Sorceror - thats where the real power lies.

For info on the Shifter class see the post below "Concerning Prestige Classes".

For the leveler mod I did this:

Create a new character Monk Human (subclass designation Half-Dragon)
Starting attributes:
14 str., 15 dex., 14 con., 8 int., 10 wis., 15 char.
(note: notice the attributes are VERY different than the SOU character, there are multiple reasons for this.)
Plow as many points into Lore skill as you can and keep on doing this until you hit 8 points in this skill (to qualify for a RDD), the other points save until much latter.
Starting Feats: power attack (for greater cleave latter), and combat casting (so you can choose the epic version much latter).
2nd level: Sorceror
3rd level: Sorceror; Feat Improved Intiative
4th level: Sorceror; attribute str.
5th level: Sorceror
6th level: RDD; Feat Weapon Focus unarmed strike (see level 21 below for reasons)
7th level: RDD
8th level: RDD; attribute str.
9th level: RDD; Feat Circle Kick (which was the reason we started with an attribute level of 15 in dex.)
10th level: RDD
11th level: RDD
12th level: RDD; Feat Great Cleave; attribute str.
13th level: RDD
14th level: RDD
15th level: Sorceror; Feat Improved Critical unarmed strike (see level 24 below)
16th level: Sorceror; attribute str.
17th level: Sorceror
18th level: Sorceror Feat (up to you but my preference is for Blind Fighting)
19th level: RDD; (If you want to increase your level in Discipline then go ahead and do it now, in my opinion though you should simply place the misc. immunity to Knockdown into one of your wearable items properties and save the skill points for your next level.*)
20th level: Monk; attribute dex. (which gives you another +1 to AC); (NOW put in 20 points in Tumble skill to give you a +4 AC, and plow in 20 points into concentration - for much latter getting the expert level Greater Combat Casting. Also place what you can evenly in hide and move silently.)

Attribute levels at character level 20 should be:
str. 26, dex. 16, con. 14, int. 10, wis. 10, cha. 17
Base AC should be 21 and of course your magic buffs (and barkskin potions) can increase this - as well as dex. or wis attribute increases from magical items or AC increases from magical items.

21st level: Achieved in HOTU; Sorceror; Feat Overwhelming Critical (see level 24 below)
22nd level: " "; Sorceror
23rd level: " "; Sorceror
24th level: " "; Sorceror; attribute char.; Feat Devistating Critical (Note: This is prob. the best single epic feat in the game (see the HOTU site for the info. on it) and this character is one of the few that can select it. Its just one of the reasons we kept "upping" the attribute str., it is also the reason for the feats weapon focus, improved critical, and overwhelming critical - which are all prequisites to Devistating Critical. Additionally this feat works EXTREMELY well with the Cleave feats and Circle Kick - in fact it makes both Whirlwinds look pathetic by comparison.

25th level and beyond - continue with Sorceror untill at least Sorceror level 18. Also continue on with attribute char. until you reach 19 (for your 9th level Sorceror spells). Consider the epic level feat of combat casting for your next feat at level 27 - though make sure you have enough points in the skill Concentration. Latter Feats should probably be the 3 types of Spell penetration for overcoming DC checks when casting spells.

*note however that it is VERY usefull should you enter a null magic zone where all of your extras from equipment don't work (like immunity to Knockdown).

[ 12-19-2003, 02:59 AM: Message edited by: ScottG ]

[Target]

Wow,
Great reply ScottG, thanks. Ever thought of writing strategy guides?
I’m looking forward to getting HotU and a free day or so to get stuck in!!

[vesselle]

don't forget that you get a sidekick to complement your talents! and if you go as a bard, you'll miss out on THE BEST sidekick ever! seriously!

V***V