To Dual Class NOW or wait another level?

fdj21 · 11-16-2003, 10:30 AM

A question for you veterans out there. I have a 10th level Cleric, just about ready to make 11th level. Stats are 10,18,16,19,17,10. I have always intended to dual class this character to a wizard, but face a conundrum. If I wait to dual class at 12th level instead of 11th level, I can gain an extra 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 6th level cleric spell. Down side is it will take much longer to reach level 12 Wizard. If I switch at 11, I lose those potential spells but I get to 11th level Wizard much faster. I'm leaning towards switching at 11, but those extra spells (especially the 6th level one) may come in real handy. Any advice is appreciated.

On another note, I am just starting Lower Dorn's Deep and have not yet installed HoW. I read somewhere a few months ago that it matters how the game ends/plays out based on when you install HoW. Also, are there items that disappear when you install HoW?

Thanks in advance for your help.

FJ

ZFR · 11-16-2003, 10:50 AM

Are you playing a 6 character party? If yes then without HoW you will never reach wizard level 11....

Anyway if you play 6 character party then install HoW and dual class at 11th level... If youre playing a 3 or 4 level party then you can wait for level 12 because wizard will advance much more quickly... it also depends a little on what other party members you have....

It certainly doesnt matter when you install HoW (so install it now, along with Totl i suggest). No items will disappear but new items will be added in shops... also the opposition school for specialist wizards changes so you might not be able to write some new spells... however spells already in spellbook will not disappear....

EDIT: Welcome to Ironworks [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img]

[ 11-16-2003, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: ZFR ]

NobleNick · 11-19-2003, 10:18 AM

fdj21,

Please accept my welcome to the IWD forum, too!

Lots of posts on HoW. Here I will just briefly say... INSTALL IT!! O.K., O.K., you want something more descriptive than that... Yes a very few items disappear, but more really neat items appear. An abbreviated list of other changes that HoW brings: Your player interface improves greatly (controllable screen resolution and alt-key highlighting are the biggies, here); the game is "rebalanced" (mostly meaning that the Druid and Bard gain lots of power over just plain IWD); you get to install the free download Trials of the LureMaster (TotLM), which (HoW plus TotLM) completely patch IWD; and you get Heart of Fury (HoF) mode.

And then the real biggie: As ZFR intimated, installing HoW will allow you to gain more adventuring area and experience. HoW (and TotLM) just pack the expo on: You'll get thousands of expo PER MONSTER for many of the critters you'll meet there; some are worth over 10,000 each! A Cleric11/Mage12 DC is not only easily obtainable; but you'll get lots of good play out of the character after he regains Cleric skills (and believe me, you'll want those Cleric skills!). If it were me, and I had other PCs with cleric skills (like maybe a Fighter9/ClericX DC) then I'd possibly even DC the Cleric/Mage at Cleric 12.

What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

fdj21 · 11-23-2003, 01:58 PM

Thanks for the replies. HoW sounds like it has a lot more positives than negatives when it comes to installing it. Bad part is, I have a scratched copy of the HoW disc, and no drive can read it properly. Yeah, I know.....stupid me to go out and buy the software, then not install or even look at it for several months, only to discover scratches on the disc surface. Guess I can send it back to Interplay with $5 to get a replacement? Least that's what the manual says. I'll give it a try.

As for Dual Classing my Cleric to Wizard...according to the HoW manual:

Cleric Level 11 is reached at 675,000 XP
Cleric Level 12 is reached at 900.000 XP

That difference is 225,000

If I apply that 225,000 XP towards Wizard class (DC at 11th lvl) That puts me at Level 9 Wizard just shy of 10th level. To be fully DC'd (12th level Wizard) I need to be at 750,000 XP, just an additional 525,000 XP.

If I DC at 12th level (900,000 XP), adding the additional 525,000 XP in the Wizard table puts me at 11th level. To reach full DC with this option, I must make 13th level Wizard which occurs at 1,125,000 XP, another 600,000 XP.

So the big question for me, is it worth waiting for DC and getting the extra spells? Is it worth having an extra Summon Fire Elemental or Blade Barrier for that 600,000 XP wait?

I have a 6 character party including a Ranger/Cleric (9/9) and a Paladin (10), so I'll still have SOME healing ability...The only unknown here is how many XP points are left in the game to share among 6 characters and still have enough gameplay left to be able to play/enjoy the character as a Dual Class.

Definitely will store a gamefile at this point anyway.

Think I will pause playing for a week or two while I obtain a new HoW disc. BTW, I suppose this add-on will be similar to the add-on for BG in that it changes the game files to HoW format? I may want to store a few and at some point in the future, replay the game with ID only just to see how it plays out. In fact, I may DC the character at 11 and finish ID, then go back and replay the scenario from this point with HoW and TotLM and DC her at 12. Hmmmmm. Choices, choices.

Thanks for the advice guys and the welcome to the forum.

FDJ

ZFR · 11-23-2003, 05:00 PM

Are you sure its because of the scratches that the CD doesnt work? Because if so you might consider getting one of those CD scratch remover kits. I got one and it actually fixed my HoW and IWD2 CD2 which werent working because of the scratches. It might cost you more than the $5 but in the long run will prove more useful and help repair your other scratched CDs.

Roboghost · 11-24-2003, 04:37 PM

I'm playing my first dual-class character and I waited until the character was maximized to dual. The fabulous Fighter/Cleric. I held out to level 13 for her so that my main weapon [the almighty Defender Mace] gets 3.5 attacks/round. That also gives me 3 points for the sling.

It is best to do this in Heart of Fury mode, so I would say to those who are not...probably dual any character earlier. You usually dual someone to what you need them more for in the later game.

I look at the Mage/Cleric like this:
The mage is more helpful in the later game and the cleric in the earlier game.

A mage (even in HoF mode and probably not a specialist) can almost take an area on by him/herself, but a cleric would have to run for his/her life! The mage can do their own buffing mid to late game...buff and blast, I say.

fdj21 · 12-05-2003, 12:20 PM

Yeah, the disc itself is scratched in a radial fashion and will not read on either drive (DVD-ROM and CD/RW) on my desktop computer, nor the drive (standard CD-ROM) in my laptop. I thought about a scratch remover kit, but they are $30 at Best Buy. I typically take very good care of my CD's and DVD's, so I'm not apt to get a lot of scratching on them.

I bought HoW around the time ID 2 came out, which was when I was just finishing up BG and starting the original ID. Never even opened the jewel case until a couple weeks ago when I was trying to find out when the best time to install it was. I've sent it back to Interplay with $5. Hope they'll send a replacement.

Thanks for the advice on DCing. Right now, while I await my new HoW disc, I've decided to continue playing and will finish the original game DCing at 11th level. Once I'm done with that, I'll go back with the saved file and play it through with HoW and ToLM installed and DC the character at 12th level.

Should be an interesting comparison. Then it will be on to BG 2! Yeah, I know I'm a couple years behind what's currently coming out, but I look at it this way...I can take my time playing it, finding out what I want to know (by coming to forums like this) about the game to make it enjoyable and not frustrating (as some games can get). It's also cheaper, bugs are usually fixed/patched, and I can spoil as little or as much of the game as I am comfortable with, which I typically don't do often unless there is a particular segment that I just can't quite get through.....

God, I love this forum!

FJ

11-16-2003, 10:50 AM	#2
ZFR Legion Symbol Join Date: February 14, 2002 Location: Ireland Age: 41 Posts: 7,370	Are you playing a 6 character party? If yes then without HoW you will never reach wizard level 11.... Anyway if you play 6 character party then install HoW and dual class at 11th level... If youre playing a 3 or 4 level party then you can wait for level 12 because wizard will advance much more quickly... it also depends a little on what other party members you have.... It certainly doesnt matter when you install HoW (so install it now, along with Totl i suggest). No items will disappear but new items will be added in shops... also the opposition school for specialist wizards changes so you might not be able to write some new spells... however spells already in spellbook will not disappear.... EDIT: Welcome to Ironworks [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img] [ 11-16-2003, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: ZFR ] __________________ ZFR

11-23-2003, 05:00 PM	#5
ZFR Legion Symbol Join Date: February 14, 2002 Location: Ireland Age: 41 Posts: 7,370	Are you sure its because of the scratches that the CD doesnt work? Because if so you might consider getting one of those CD scratch remover kits. I got one and it actually fixed my HoW and IWD2 CD2 which werent working because of the scratches. It might cost you more than the $5 but in the long run will prove more useful and help repair your other scratched CDs. __________________ ZFR

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11-16-2003, 10:30 AM	#1
fdj21 Welcomed New User Join Date: November 12, 2003 Location: US Age: 39 Posts: 3	A question for you veterans out there. I have a 10th level Cleric, just about ready to make 11th level. Stats are 10,18,16,19,17,10. I have always intended to dual class this character to a wizard, but face a conundrum. If I wait to dual class at 12th level instead of 11th level, I can gain an extra 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 6th level cleric spell. Down side is it will take much longer to reach level 12 Wizard. If I switch at 11, I lose those potential spells but I get to 11th level Wizard much faster. I'm leaning towards switching at 11, but those extra spells (especially the 6th level one) may come in real handy. Any advice is appreciated. On another note, I am just starting Lower Dorn's Deep and have not yet installed HoW. I read somewhere a few months ago that it matters how the game ends/plays out based on when you install HoW. Also, are there items that disappear when you install HoW? Thanks in advance for your help. FJ

11-19-2003, 10:18 AM	#3
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 65 Posts: 1,045	fdj21, Please accept my welcome to the IWD forum, too! Lots of posts on HoW. Here I will just briefly say... INSTALL IT!! O.K., O.K., you want something more descriptive than that... Yes a very few items disappear, but more really neat items appear. An abbreviated list of other changes that HoW brings: Your player interface improves greatly (controllable screen resolution and alt-key highlighting are the biggies, here); the game is "rebalanced" (mostly meaning that the Druid and Bard gain lots of power over just plain IWD); you get to install the free download Trials of the LureMaster (TotLM), which (HoW plus TotLM) completely patch IWD; and you get Heart of Fury (HoF) mode. And then the real biggie: As ZFR intimated, installing HoW will allow you to gain more adventuring area and experience. HoW (and TotLM) just pack the expo on: You'll get thousands of expo PER MONSTER for many of the critters you'll meet there; some are worth over 10,000 each! A Cleric11/Mage12 DC is not only easily obtainable; but you'll get lots of good play out of the character after he regains Cleric skills (and believe me, you'll want those Cleric skills!). If it were me, and I had other PCs with cleric skills (like maybe a Fighter9/ClericX DC) then I'd possibly even DC the Cleric/Mage at Cleric 12. What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party On!!

11-23-2003, 01:58 PM	#4
fdj21 Welcomed New User Join Date: November 12, 2003 Location: US Age: 39 Posts: 3	Thanks for the replies. HoW sounds like it has a lot more positives than negatives when it comes to installing it. Bad part is, I have a scratched copy of the HoW disc, and no drive can read it properly. Yeah, I know.....stupid me to go out and buy the software, then not install or even look at it for several months, only to discover scratches on the disc surface. Guess I can send it back to Interplay with $5 to get a replacement? Least that's what the manual says. I'll give it a try. As for Dual Classing my Cleric to Wizard...according to the HoW manual: Cleric Level 11 is reached at 675,000 XP Cleric Level 12 is reached at 900.000 XP That difference is 225,000 If I apply that 225,000 XP towards Wizard class (DC at 11th lvl) That puts me at Level 9 Wizard just shy of 10th level. To be fully DC'd (12th level Wizard) I need to be at 750,000 XP, just an additional 525,000 XP. If I DC at 12th level (900,000 XP), adding the additional 525,000 XP in the Wizard table puts me at 11th level. To reach full DC with this option, I must make 13th level Wizard which occurs at 1,125,000 XP, another 600,000 XP. So the big question for me, is it worth waiting for DC and getting the extra spells? Is it worth having an extra Summon Fire Elemental or Blade Barrier for that 600,000 XP wait? I have a 6 character party including a Ranger/Cleric (9/9) and a Paladin (10), so I'll still have SOME healing ability...The only unknown here is how many XP points are left in the game to share among 6 characters and still have enough gameplay left to be able to play/enjoy the character as a Dual Class. Definitely will store a gamefile at this point anyway. Think I will pause playing for a week or two while I obtain a new HoW disc. BTW, I suppose this add-on will be similar to the add-on for BG in that it changes the game files to HoW format? I may want to store a few and at some point in the future, replay the game with ID only just to see how it plays out. In fact, I may DC the character at 11 and finish ID, then go back and replay the scenario from this point with HoW and TotLM and DC her at 12. Hmmmmm. Choices, choices. Thanks for the advice guys and the welcome to the forum. FDJ

11-24-2003, 04:37 PM	#6
Roboghost Manshoon Join Date: May 15, 2002 Location: California Posts: 216	I'm playing my first dual-class character and I waited until the character was maximized to dual. The fabulous Fighter/Cleric. I held out to level 13 for her so that my main weapon [the almighty Defender Mace] gets 3.5 attacks/round. That also gives me 3 points for the sling. It is best to do this in Heart of Fury mode, so I would say to those who are not...probably dual any character earlier. You usually dual someone to what you need them more for in the later game. I look at the Mage/Cleric like this: The mage is more helpful in the later game and the cleric in the earlier game. A mage (even in HoF mode and probably not a specialist) can almost take an area on by him/herself, but a cleric would have to run for his/her life! The mage can do their own buffing mid to late game...buff and blast, I say.

12-05-2003, 12:20 PM	#7
fdj21 Welcomed New User Join Date: November 12, 2003 Location: US Age: 39 Posts: 3	Yeah, the disc itself is scratched in a radial fashion and will not read on either drive (DVD-ROM and CD/RW) on my desktop computer, nor the drive (standard CD-ROM) in my laptop. I thought about a scratch remover kit, but they are $30 at Best Buy. I typically take very good care of my CD's and DVD's, so I'm not apt to get a lot of scratching on them. I bought HoW around the time ID 2 came out, which was when I was just finishing up BG and starting the original ID. Never even opened the jewel case until a couple weeks ago when I was trying to find out when the best time to install it was. I've sent it back to Interplay with $5. Hope they'll send a replacement. Thanks for the advice on DCing. Right now, while I await my new HoW disc, I've decided to continue playing and will finish the original game DCing at 11th level. Once I'm done with that, I'll go back with the saved file and play it through with HoW and ToLM installed and DC the character at 12th level. Should be an interesting comparison. Then it will be on to BG 2! Yeah, I know I'm a couple years behind what's currently coming out, but I look at it this way...I can take my time playing it, finding out what I want to know (by coming to forums like this) about the game to make it enjoyable and not frustrating (as some games can get). It's also cheaper, bugs are usually fixed/patched, and I can spoil as little or as much of the game as I am comfortable with, which I typically don't do often unless there is a particular segment that I just can't quite get through..... God, I love this forum! FJ

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