UNFAIR!

SnarktheStrange · 08-31-2002, 01:36 AM

There's no possibility for a character to have lore about monsters. Only the player has/gets the lore. How the dickens am I supposed to know what an ettercap or a battle horror is unless I have an AD&D Monster Manual? How possible is it that a ranger doesn't know what kind of critters live in the woods?

Firestormalpha · 08-31-2002, 02:16 AM

Snark if you are so concerned about it, go out and buy the $40 copy of the D&D monster guide.

SnarktheStrange · 08-31-2002, 04:05 AM

But it's equally unfair for the player to have information not available to the characters. It's a question of powergaming vs. roleplaying. How do you enjoy playing your game?

[ 08-31-2002, 04:07 AM: Message edited by: SnarktheStrange ]

Sir Heinrich Godfrie IV · 08-31-2002, 05:38 AM

I found a cheap ($8.99) strategy guide at a local gaming store, and in the back of this guide there is a Bestiary of all the monsters and NPC/enemies. Of course, this is only for BG1, so any monster/enemy additions in the TotSC would be abscent. And it only gives the antagonist's hit points and level status.
Here I'll list some common and or important enemies...

Name/HP/Lvl

Alai/56/8, Angelo/87/11, Ankheg/52/NA, Basilisk(Less)/45/NA, Basilisk(Great)/78/NA, Bassilus/49/7, Battle Horror/58/NA, Etter/40/NA,...

Oh forget it, theres too many to list, so I'll give you one more, Sarevok/135/15. The book is made by Brady Games Strategy Guides, and the ISBN is 1-56686-788-6, or you could try bradygames.com. Or you might try a little search to see if there is any BG related sites out there that have the Bestiary posted within them. Hope this helps a little. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Firestormalpha · 08-31-2002, 10:40 AM

Sir Heinrich, I think I understand what Snark means now. Snark:
lesson 1)Life is unfair. We all find ways to deal with that fact, or we live extremely miserable lives.
lesson 2)The only reason we know something that the characters don't is because we have brains. They are tiny portions of programming; however, there are those, like myself, that believe we take the part of the different characters. You need to adapt a small portion of their mindsets to your own thoughts in order to create a workable RPG experience especially through a computer console. In the end, they will know what you know because in a way you have made them part of yourself.
-
Ok to sum things up (in a non-psuedo-philosophical way. see example of the pseudo above.)
-
The characters know what you know because if you are playing the characters you are the characters.
An actor doesn't play a part he effectively becomes the part enough to act it while still remaining himslef so that he maintains sanity.

[ 08-31-2002, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: Firestormalpha ]

SnarktheStrange · 09-01-2002, 12:58 PM

Yeahsureyabetcha! The point is that it's cheesy to be *forced* to go to a Monster Manual to know something a character should have a chance of knowing about owing to his backstory. I roleplay to the extent that I don't save and retake level-up hitpoints, and don't rerun chances for Xan to learn a spell. But, since this is such a killer dungeon to purely roleplay, I'll take several shots at something like getting Davaeorn. Last time I played, Xan got killed by an ambush wyvern going home from the Cloakwood mines; I'll just reload and try again.

08-31-2002, 01:36 AM	#1
SnarktheStrange The Magister Join Date: July 5, 2002 Location: Rochester, MN Age: 81 Posts: 124	There's no possibility for a character to have lore about monsters. Only the player has/gets the lore. How the dickens am I supposed to know what an ettercap or a battle horror is unless I have an AD&D Monster Manual? How possible is it that a ranger doesn't know what kind of critters live in the woods? __________________ Snark the Strange

08-31-2002, 02:16 AM	#2
Firestormalpha Knight of the Rose Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: Coral Springs, Fl USA Age: 41 Posts: 4,454	Snark if you are so concerned about it, go out and buy the $40 copy of the D&D monster guide. __________________ "When you start with a presupposition, it's hard to arrive at any other conclusion." "We are never to judge a philosophy by its abuse." - Augustine "If you're wondering if God has a sense of humor, consider the platypus." http://www.greaterthings.cbglades.com

08-31-2002, 04:05 AM	#3
SnarktheStrange The Magister Join Date: July 5, 2002 Location: Rochester, MN Age: 81 Posts: 124	But it's equally unfair for the player to have information not available to the characters. It's a question of powergaming vs. roleplaying. How do you enjoy playing your game? [ 08-31-2002, 04:07 AM: Message edited by: SnarktheStrange ] __________________ Snark the Strange

08-31-2002, 05:38 AM	#4
Sir Heinrich Godfrie IV Zhentarim Guard Join Date: May 19, 2002 Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes (Minneapolis, MN, USA) Age: 43 Posts: 315	I found a cheap ($8.99) strategy guide at a local gaming store, and in the back of this guide there is a Bestiary of all the monsters and NPC/enemies. Of course, this is only for BG1, so any monster/enemy additions in the TotSC would be abscent. And it only gives the antagonist's hit points and level status. Here I'll list some common and or important enemies... Name/HP/Lvl Alai/56/8, Angelo/87/11, Ankheg/52/NA, Basilisk(Less)/45/NA, Basilisk(Great)/78/NA, Bassilus/49/7, Battle Horror/58/NA, Etter/40/NA,... Oh forget it, theres too many to list, so I'll give you one more, Sarevok/135/15. The book is made by Brady Games Strategy Guides, and the ISBN is 1-56686-788-6, or you could try bradygames.com. Or you might try a little search to see if there is any BG related sites out there that have the Bestiary posted within them. Hope this helps a little. [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ \"The Earth is NOT your Mother!\"<br /><br />\"The chief cause of failure is trading what we want most, for what we want at the moment.\"<br />-Unknown

08-31-2002, 10:40 AM	#5
Firestormalpha Knight of the Rose Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: Coral Springs, Fl USA Age: 41 Posts: 4,454	Sir Heinrich, I think I understand what Snark means now. Snark: lesson 1)Life is unfair. We all find ways to deal with that fact, or we live extremely miserable lives. lesson 2)The only reason we know something that the characters don't is because we have brains. They are tiny portions of programming; however, there are those, like myself, that believe we take the part of the different characters. You need to adapt a small portion of their mindsets to your own thoughts in order to create a workable RPG experience especially through a computer console. In the end, they will know what you know because in a way you have made them part of yourself. - Ok to sum things up (in a non-psuedo-philosophical way. see example of the pseudo above.) - The characters know what you know because if you are playing the characters you are the characters. An actor doesn't play a part he effectively becomes the part enough to act it while still remaining himslef so that he maintains sanity. [ 08-31-2002, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: Firestormalpha ] __________________ "When you start with a presupposition, it's hard to arrive at any other conclusion." "We are never to judge a philosophy by its abuse." - Augustine "If you're wondering if God has a sense of humor, consider the platypus." http://www.greaterthings.cbglades.com

09-01-2002, 12:58 PM	#6
SnarktheStrange The Magister Join Date: July 5, 2002 Location: Rochester, MN Age: 81 Posts: 124	Yeahsureyabetcha! The point is that it's cheesy to be forced to go to a Monster Manual to know something a character should have a chance of knowing about owing to his backstory. I roleplay to the extent that I don't save and retake level-up hitpoints, and don't rerun chances for Xan to learn a spell. But, since this is such a killer dungeon to purely roleplay, I'll take several shots at something like getting Davaeorn. Last time I played, Xan got killed by an ambush wyvern going home from the Cloakwood mines; I'll just reload and try again. __________________ Snark the Strange

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