How do you live without a bard?

[StarVid]

Now that my bard has the war chant of sith, I don't know how I can ever play without my bard again. It completely changes my entire battle strategy. Before, I would play carefully and use a lot of ranged weapons. Now I don't even have a single bow or xbow in my party. I just send them all into the fray with axes, swords, and flails and chop up the baddies into to tiny little pieces. My cleric and druid doesn't even use much healing spells anymore, instead they're casting the ANGRY spells like flame strike and holy smite.

Or, in less bloodthirsty words. It used to be about surviving an encounted with as little damage as possible, now all I need to worry about is surviving the encounter, and the the bard song regenerate the rest. And with the bonuses to armor class, my party doesn't really even get hit (except when I went to burial isle right after I hit level 9, boy I was getting mangled there) It's a problem though because I'm trying to design a small party and I can't fit the bard in. Here's what I got:

Dwarven fighter (with big angry axes) or Human Paladin (with angry swords and axes)
Human Ranger, dualed to a cleric (at level 3 probably) (missle and maces or flails)
Gnome Illusionist or Half Elven mage (missle)
Elven Fighter/Thief (getting angry on the bow and long swords)

My only thought is to cut out the gnome and replace it with a half-elven bard. Even with the faster leveling though, the bard is going to be trailing behind by one spell level. Still though, it might be worth the sacrifice considering that all my characters will now be able to regenerate, resistance to all physical damage, and get a -2 to their armor class.

If I don't cut the mage, I have to choose between the illusionist and the vanilla mage. I don't like the idea of giving up horrid wilt and seven eyes. I haven't actually used 7 eyes yet, but it looks really nice. Besides, the extra spell per level really won't matter with my faster leveling, I wouldn't think.

Also, the human paladin over the dwarven Fighter, what looks better in a small party. I figure that the paladin can help with with supporting spellcasting and all his/her nifty perks like protection from evil, smite evil, and such. But then again, this PC is going to be my frontliner and should be more focused on that, which means the fighter might be a better choice.

Lastly, if I dual my ranger at level 3, will my cleric have access to all the druid spells? It's basically the only reason I'm doing that character like that, else I'd go with a dwarven cleric. I figure I still get the extra attack (though w/o a shield), without having to level to 7 before dualing.

Thanks.

[Leafy]

i'm pretty certain that your dualed Ranger->cleric will only get the limited druid spells up to level 2. It's dependant on the level of the ranger, not just that he is a ranger. again: half-elf cleric/rangers rock
I'd also choose the Paladin over the Dwarven fighter; for the reasons you explained. Plus, Paladin resistances will ensure that your front man doesn't get scared and run away or anything silly like that.
Dwarves make excellent fighter/thieves.
Human fighters who become mages, very cool.
Bards? can be a big help early in the game. their spells are few but can quickly become more powerful than the mage's. Later, that war chant is the cheesiest. (and i loooove cheese!)

[StarVid]

Leafy, you HAVE to explain this to me. What's up with the Dwarf Fighter/Thief? I always though the knock to your dex is pretty bad for a thief. Also, considering this thief is going to be primarily and archer/backup tank, I figured an elf was the way to go with the +1 to dex, and to hit with bows and longswords. Granted, the dwarf will have about 20 hp more than the elf, but for a hopefully primarily backliner, I wouldn't think this mattered much (though I should probably take into consideration the dwarfs magic resists).

I'm not dissing the dwarf, I just need someone to drop the knowledge for me.

Though, this is the party I finally decided on:

LG Paladin
NG Dwarf Cleric
NG Elf Fighter/Thief
NG Bard

I have all but the paladin the same alignment because wrath of the faithful (or something like that) gives much bigger bonuses to those of the same alignment as the cleric.

Unfortunately I have to give up my druid, which eliminates my cheesy spiked stones/entangle combo, but I get the cheesy war chant of sith so I think it works out better. Besides, I'll still have a web spell and rings of free action for my 2 frontliners.

Also, I traded the mage for the bard. I checked the numbers. A bard in a party of 4 actually has almost the same casting ability as a mage in a party of 6. It's pretty sweet. My bard is going to focus on party buffing spells, area effect non-invocation spells (web, chaos, etc), and assorted utility spells (invisibility). When he's not casting, he'll be singing. And he'll probably hit the allmighty Level 11 before the end of the severed hand, which will be really nice.

I'm welcome to comments though, and please explain the dwarf! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Azred]

Yes, War Chant of Sith is the best bard song. I literally breathed a sigh of relief once my HoF bard attained 11th level--healing became a snap after that! I can't figure out why bards are so pathetic in Baldur's Gate when compared to Icewind Dale. Oh, well....

Dwarves like their mithril and their gold. Other beings also like mithril and gold. Thus, the dwarves want to make sure that all the mithril and gold they worked so hard to mine, refine, and turn into objects d'art don't fall into the wrong hands. Hence, they devise many locks and traps to keep light-fingered people out; this results in reasonably good thieves.

[ 04-18-2002, 10:16 PM: Message edited by: Azred ]

[StarVid]

I am such a complete and total moron. I didn't even take into consideration the dwarves racial bonuses to thief skills. All I saw was the cut to dexterity. And a 10%/15% bonus to locks/traps totally makes it clear why a dwarf surpasses the elf.

And with the magic save bonus to boot, I don't know what I was thinking. I really should read the manual more.

*running off to create my dwarf fighter/thief now*

And on a side now, now that I do this, I'm going to have 2 dwarfs, a human, and a half-elf in my part. I wondering if I should change my dwarf cleric to something else. If I don't mind a cut to wisdom, I can take a halfling or a gnome. Or maybe an elf with the bonus to dex and the irrelevant cut to con. Though I bet I should leave well enough alone and keep the dwarf...

[Azred]

Originally posted by StarVid: I really should read the manual more.

Are you mad?! [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img] Read the manual? You'll ruin your whole game if you do that! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Lopadamus Flimbog]

I don't have a bard...
Maybe that's why I die and re-load a lot...

[Micah Foehammer]

Lopadomus, Bards are nice, but not essential.

But for those of you who DO like Bards, here's a little tidbit of info on IWD2.

From the FAQ thread on BIS forums:

Q: Will Bards still have access to the bard songs that were included with Heart of Winter?
A: All of the Heart of Winter bard songs will be included in Icewind Dale II. The "War Chant of Sith" song has been changed to now regenerate 3 hit points per round instead of 2, but it will only heal in the presence of enemies.

[StarVid]

Q: Will Bards still have access to the bard songs that were included with Heart of Winter? A: All of the Heart of Winter bard songs will be included in Icewind Dale II. The "War Chant of Sith" song has been changed to now regenerate 3 hit points per round instead of 2, but it will only heal in the presence of enemies.

Only in the presence of enemies? It looks like I won't be playing a bard in IWD2. [img]tongue.gif[/img]