Fireshield

Lepus Timidus · 11-26-2006, 06:45 PM

As school holiday's have arrived, I've been messing around with BG II.

I've come to the realization that Fire Shield is a far more useful spell for a solo sorc than I first assumed. Especially considering other spells that it can be used in conjunction with.

Let me start by pointing out that Fireshield is useless against casters. It only deals out damage to melee, and ranged attackers who are reasonable close to the casters (but contact is not required). Nevertheless, the most dangerous enemies to a solo sorc include heavy melee fighters, especially in Throne of Bhaal.

The beauty of Fireshield is that the tougher the melee opponent, the greater its rate of damage. This doesn't make sense?

Quite simply, we make the assumption that the higher level the fighter/archer, the greater their:

1. THACO (chance to hit). Hence, the more often they will hit the caster, and the more often they will receive damage from the Fire Shield.

2. Attacks per round. More attacks per round results in fire shield dealing out more damage.

For example, let's assume that we have a slaver guard with 1 attack per round, and a high THACO. The damage fireshield deals out every time a sorc is hit is 1D8+2, resulting in an average damage of 6. Hence, the slaver will receive approx 6 damage per round. However, due to his high THACO, the slaver will be likely to miss even a poorly armoured sorc. As a result, the approx. damage per round won't be 6, it will far less. On the plus side, an opponent can't save against damage he takes from fire shield.

Now, let's assume that we have a powerful fighter with a super low THACO, and a large number of attacks per round (4). Due to the low THACO, we make the assumption that every attack hits. 4 rounds * 6 = 24 damage per round.

Not bad, considering that the only other damage dealing spell on level 4 (ice storm) can only deal 2d8 (16) maximum damage (8 average) per round.

Hence, Fireshield is a rather unique spell. While its duration is influenced by caster level, its effectiveness (rate of damage) is actually increases in proportion to the opponent's level!

Is there any way in which we can increase the rate of damage meted out by fireshield?
Common sense tells us that you can increase the rate of damage via:

1. Increasing the opponent's THACO, or decreasing your AC.

2. Increasing the opponent's number of attacks per round.

Let's address each possibility:

1. There are very few ways a solo sorc. can increase the THACO of his opponent. Luck adds +1 to their THACO, for a short duration. Hence, it doesn't make for a very effective tactic. Strength may be effective for very low strength monsters, although melee fighters tend to have 18+ strength to begin with.

AC can easily be reduced by... removing armour. While you cannot remove body armour during battle, you can remove Bracers (which are usually the major source of armour for a sorc.) Being held also increases your chances of being struck by an opponent (this is mentioned again later on in the post).

2. Increasing the opponent's number of attacks per round is not chore. Haste is a poor choice, as it only increases the attacks per round by 1.

Improved Haste is a winner. It's ability to double an opponent's attacks per round results in a doubling of the rate of damage dealt by fire shield.

Hence, an improved hasted uber fighter with 4 attacks per round will have his attack rate doubled to 8 attacks per round, receiving an average damage of 48 damage per round.

Up until this point, you've probably being reading with slight skeptism. "But hang on, Mr. Hare, I don't think I want my sorc to get hit! In fact, the enemy shouldn't even get close to my sorcerer."

The objection is reasonable... to an extent. Remember that a solo sorcerer tend to lack meat shields (unless the [ab]use 'Project Image' to break the summon limit), and monsters have a habit of slipping through the cracks. However, this observation doesn't resolve the dilemma of how to effectively employ this tactic without taking damage yourself.

There are three answers. Mirror Image, Stoneskin, and more importantly, Protection from Magic Weapons.

Surprisingly, if a monster lands a blow on one of your mirror images, it still counts as though he has made contact with the caster, and he receives damage from the fireshield for hitting one of your mirror images. Fantastic! This means that even a low level sorc, with just mirror image, can deal out some damage with fireshield before taking damage himself.

If a monster lands a blow on a caster protected with stoneskins, the monster still receives damage. This is a no brainer.

The above two are all fine and dandy in a one on one fight. A creature with even a large amount of HP is likely to drop before he removes all of your mirror images and stone skins. The problem is that large mobs of monsters will tear through your skins, receiving very little damage in return.

Protection from Magic Weapons solves this problem. By granting complete immunity to all magic weapons, you can take any number of hits within four rounds with impunity.

4 rounds of protection may not sound like much. But it is more than enough to do the job on most high level monsters.

For example, assume that you are attacked by an improved hasted cacofiend, with 8 attacks per round. Assuming that every attack hits within those 4 rounds, you can do an average of 192 damage within those 4 rounds (6 damage * 8 attacks per round * 4 rounds = 192 damage per round)! Note that a cacofiend only has 72 health.

So, the tactic which I have fondly coined as 'Suicide' consists of the following:

1. Cast Stone Skin. (Before battle)

2. Cast Mirror Image. (Before battle)

3. Cast Fire Shield. (Before or during battle).

4. Remove any items which lower your AC.

5. Cast Improved Haste on monster upon sight.

6. As he comes within striking range, cast 'Prot. From Magic Weapons'.

7. Sit back and watch your opponent commit suicide!

Note that you don't need to 'sit back'. During those 4 rounds, you can heap on the hurt with spells or Melf's Minor Meteors. A Sunfire can finish off any opponents left standing. Although it is usually unnecessary.

The suicide tactic is a life saver in one particular scenario. A melee opponent has immobilized you (usually demons or undead), and is up close and personal. A sorc without fireshield would most likely be torn to shreds. Once the 4 rounds wear off, his mirror images and stoneskins are battered away, and he is a dead man.

However, a sorc with fireshield erected will survive! Before the undead lackey or demon can tear through his defenses, it will have dropped dead. Apparently there is some truth to 'A good defense is a good offense.'

That pretty much sums up my initial findings of Fireshield. I'll probably add random thoughts to this thread at a later date.

Comments? Questions? Have you found any flaws in my argumentation? Know how to make this strategy more effective? Then reply!

SixOfSpades · 11-26-2006, 06:52 PM

You know that it's perfectly legal to have both Fireshields up at the same time, right? And the Kelsey NPC has a Cloak that can cast FireShield:Green (Acid damage), for a potential of THREE FireShields running concurrently.

Lepus Timidus · 11-26-2006, 07:04 PM

Sixxy:

Quote:

You know that it's perfectly legal to have both Fireshields up at the same time, right?

Yes. Although I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with the idea of using up two of my lvl 4 spell picks on Fire Shield. After all, you also need Stoneskin, Greater Malison, and Spider Spawn.

Tom-Slayer · 11-26-2006, 07:14 PM

Why not make it a cleric/mage? Add in Aura of flaming death, globe of blades, and blade barrier? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Lord · 11-26-2006, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lepus Timidus:
You know that it's perfectly legal to have both Fireshields up at the same time, right?

Yes. Although I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with the idea of using up two of my lvl 4 spell picks on Fire Shield. After all, you also need Stoneskin, Greater Malison, and Spider Spawn. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Um, Spider Spawn? I'd suggest you take that sucker out of your list of memorized spells.

Lepus Timidus · 11-26-2006, 11:34 PM

Spider Spawn + Web = Combo which remains useful throughout the game.

Klorox · 11-27-2006, 09:34 AM

I think Spider Spawn is a very good low level summoning spell.

ister · 11-30-2006, 02:38 PM

I like it. Which Fireshield would you take? Blue will not help you against undead, and lord knows there are lots of those to kill. On the other hand Red won't help against demons and other nasty fire resistant enemies.

Presumably this could make for a very nice contingency - Fireshield, mirror image, prot. mag. weapons. Fires when disabled.

Or perhaps as a (major) sequencer - Fireshield, stoneskin, mirror image. Wouldn't want to waste the spell trigger slot on something to be used so rarely.

Kyrvias · 11-30-2006, 05:05 PM

Even better is loading up a Spell Trigger, and contingency, with Fire Shield Red & Blue, +Protection from Magical weapons, and then the other with Stoneskin, Mirror Image, and who knows what else.

A great strategy, in any event.

Dundee Slaytern · 12-06-2006, 12:19 PM

I agree that Fireshield is an excellent spell, but spell choices for a Sorcerer are limited and in the end, I personally decided that my Spell-List had to make do without it. Your mileage will vary.

That said... Fireshield is very abusive, and many modded enemies become a total joke because their modders were too overzealous in beefing up the enemies' attacks. Fireshield is easily one of the spells that first comes to mind when faced with overly-aggressive opponents.

Fireshield:Red can be obtained from the Staff of Fire. Scrolls are also usable, but they are casted at Lvl-10 only.

Cheers.

11-26-2006, 06:52 PM	#2
SixOfSpades Dracolisk Join Date: September 16, 2001 Location: Bellingham, WA, USA Age: 47 Posts: 6,901	You know that it's perfectly legal to have both Fireshields up at the same time, right? And the Kelsey NPC has a Cloak that can cast FireShield:Green (Acid damage), for a potential of THREE FireShields running concurrently. __________________ Volothamp's Comeuppance Everything you ever needed to know about the entire Baldur's Gate series......except spoilers.

11-26-2006, 07:14 PM	#4
Tom-Slayer Manshoon Join Date: September 9, 2002 Location: NZ Age: 33 Posts: 208	Why not make it a cleric/mage? Add in Aura of flaming death, globe of blades, and blade barrier? [img]tongue.gif[/img] __________________ Tom-Slayer<br />A.K.A<br />(The Flaming)<br />Amarant

11-27-2006, 09:34 AM	#7
Klorox Symbol of Cyric Join Date: August 21, 2004 Location: USA Age: 48 Posts: 1,168	I think Spider Spawn is a very good low level summoning spell. __________________ Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."-- Edmund Burke

11-30-2006, 02:38 PM	#8
ister Drow Warrior Join Date: January 12, 2005 Location: usa Age: 56 Posts: 291	I like it. Which Fireshield would you take? Blue will not help you against undead, and lord knows there are lots of those to kill. On the other hand Red won't help against demons and other nasty fire resistant enemies. Presumably this could make for a very nice contingency - Fireshield, mirror image, prot. mag. weapons. Fires when disabled. Or perhaps as a (major) sequencer - Fireshield, stoneskin, mirror image. Wouldn't want to waste the spell trigger slot on something to be used so rarely. __________________ \" Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.\"<br />JFK

11-26-2006, 06:45 PM	#1
Lepus Timidus Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: September 25, 2006 Location: Australia Age: 37 Posts: 14	As school holiday's have arrived, I've been messing around with BG II. I've come to the realization that Fire Shield is a far more useful spell for a solo sorc than I first assumed. Especially considering other spells that it can be used in conjunction with. Let me start by pointing out that Fireshield is useless against casters. It only deals out damage to melee, and ranged attackers who are reasonable close to the casters (but contact is not required). Nevertheless, the most dangerous enemies to a solo sorc include heavy melee fighters, especially in Throne of Bhaal. The beauty of Fireshield is that the tougher the melee opponent, the greater its rate of damage. This doesn't make sense? Quite simply, we make the assumption that the higher level the fighter/archer, the greater their: 1. THACO (chance to hit). Hence, the more often they will hit the caster, and the more often they will receive damage from the Fire Shield. 2. Attacks per round. More attacks per round results in fire shield dealing out more damage. For example, let's assume that we have a slaver guard with 1 attack per round, and a high THACO. The damage fireshield deals out every time a sorc is hit is 1D8+2, resulting in an average damage of 6. Hence, the slaver will receive approx 6 damage per round. However, due to his high THACO, the slaver will be likely to miss even a poorly armoured sorc. As a result, the approx. damage per round won't be 6, it will far less. On the plus side, an opponent can't save against damage he takes from fire shield. Now, let's assume that we have a powerful fighter with a super low THACO, and a large number of attacks per round (4). Due to the low THACO, we make the assumption that every attack hits. 4 rounds * 6 = 24 damage per round. Not bad, considering that the only other damage dealing spell on level 4 (ice storm) can only deal 2d8 (16) maximum damage (8 average) per round. Hence, Fireshield is a rather unique spell. While its duration is influenced by caster level, its effectiveness (rate of damage) is actually increases in proportion to the opponent's level! Is there any way in which we can increase the rate of damage meted out by fireshield? Common sense tells us that you can increase the rate of damage via: 1. Increasing the opponent's THACO, or decreasing your AC. 2. Increasing the opponent's number of attacks per round. Let's address each possibility: 1. There are very few ways a solo sorc. can increase the THACO of his opponent. Luck adds +1 to their THACO, for a short duration. Hence, it doesn't make for a very effective tactic. Strength may be effective for very low strength monsters, although melee fighters tend to have 18+ strength to begin with. AC can easily be reduced by... removing armour. While you cannot remove body armour during battle, you can remove Bracers (which are usually the major source of armour for a sorc.) Being held also increases your chances of being struck by an opponent (this is mentioned again later on in the post). 2. Increasing the opponent's number of attacks per round is not chore. Haste is a poor choice, as it only increases the attacks per round by 1. Improved Haste is a winner. It's ability to double an opponent's attacks per round results in a doubling of the rate of damage dealt by fire shield. Hence, an improved hasted uber fighter with 4 attacks per round will have his attack rate doubled to 8 attacks per round, receiving an average damage of 48 damage per round. Up until this point, you've probably being reading with slight skeptism. "But hang on, Mr. Hare, I don't think I want my sorc to get hit! In fact, the enemy shouldn't even get close to my sorcerer." The objection is reasonable... to an extent. Remember that a solo sorcerer tend to lack meat shields (unless the [ab]use 'Project Image' to break the summon limit), and monsters have a habit of slipping through the cracks. However, this observation doesn't resolve the dilemma of how to effectively employ this tactic without taking damage yourself. There are three answers. Mirror Image, Stoneskin, and more importantly, Protection from Magic Weapons. Surprisingly, if a monster lands a blow on one of your mirror images, it still counts as though he has made contact with the caster, and he receives damage from the fireshield for hitting one of your mirror images. Fantastic! This means that even a low level sorc, with just mirror image, can deal out some damage with fireshield before taking damage himself. If a monster lands a blow on a caster protected with stoneskins, the monster still receives damage. This is a no brainer. The above two are all fine and dandy in a one on one fight. A creature with even a large amount of HP is likely to drop before he removes all of your mirror images and stone skins. The problem is that large mobs of monsters will tear through your skins, receiving very little damage in return. Protection from Magic Weapons solves this problem. By granting complete immunity to all magic weapons, you can take any number of hits within four rounds with impunity. 4 rounds of protection may not sound like much. But it is more than enough to do the job on most high level monsters. For example, assume that you are attacked by an improved hasted cacofiend, with 8 attacks per round. Assuming that every attack hits within those 4 rounds, you can do an average of 192 damage within those 4 rounds (6 damage * 8 attacks per round * 4 rounds = 192 damage per round)! Note that a cacofiend only has 72 health. So, the tactic which I have fondly coined as 'Suicide' consists of the following: 1. Cast Stone Skin. (Before battle) 2. Cast Mirror Image. (Before battle) 3. Cast Fire Shield. (Before or during battle). 4. Remove any items which lower your AC. 5. Cast Improved Haste on monster upon sight. 6. As he comes within striking range, cast 'Prot. From Magic Weapons'. 7. Sit back and watch your opponent commit suicide! Note that you don't need to 'sit back'. During those 4 rounds, you can heap on the hurt with spells or Melf's Minor Meteors. A Sunfire can finish off any opponents left standing. Although it is usually unnecessary. The suicide tactic is a life saver in one particular scenario. A melee opponent has immobilized you (usually demons or undead), and is up close and personal. A sorc without fireshield would most likely be torn to shreds. Once the 4 rounds wear off, his mirror images and stoneskins are battered away, and he is a dead man. However, a sorc with fireshield erected will survive! Before the undead lackey or demon can tear through his defenses, it will have dropped dead. Apparently there is some truth to 'A good defense is a good offense.' That pretty much sums up my initial findings of Fireshield. I'll probably add random thoughts to this thread at a later date. Comments? Questions? Have you found any flaws in my argumentation? Know how to make this strategy more effective? Then reply!

11-26-2006, 11:34 PM	#6
Lepus Timidus Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: September 25, 2006 Location: Australia Age: 37 Posts: 14	Spider Spawn + Web = Combo which remains useful throughout the game.

11-30-2006, 05:05 PM	#9
Kyrvias Lord Ao Join Date: May 15, 2005 Posts: 2,092	Even better is loading up a Spell Trigger, and contingency, with Fire Shield Red & Blue, +Protection from Magical weapons, and then the other with Stoneskin, Mirror Image, and who knows what else. A great strategy, in any event.

12-06-2006, 12:19 PM	#10
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 41 Posts: 11,063	I agree that Fireshield is an excellent spell, but spell choices for a Sorcerer are limited and in the end, I personally decided that my Spell-List had to make do without it. Your mileage will vary. That said... Fireshield is very abusive, and many modded enemies become a total joke because their modders were too overzealous in beefing up the enemies' attacks. Fireshield is easily one of the spells that first comes to mind when faced with overly-aggressive opponents. Fireshield:Red can be obtained from the Staff of Fire. Scrolls are also usable, but they are casted at Lvl-10 only. Cheers.

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