Calling all experienced Thieves

[Rockstar]

hey everybody,

i am thinking of having a party with one member a theif to be dual classed around the level 15-16 mark which is to be an swashbuckler or an assassin.

Here is my question as an example:
"the swashbuckler gains a +1 to hit and damage every 5 levels. If we were to dual him to a fighter at level 10, would he keep his +2 hit and damage by adding it onto the fighter's stats either immediately or when i re-activate my old class? Or would the fighter class stats override this bonus and give me the normal stats that a thief/fighter would have dualed at level 10?"

This is a really important question because if these bonuses are simply discarded when my theif class is reactivated i will choose to go an assassin, otherwise i would choose a swashbuckler so i can reap these bonuses.

thanks heaps to any body that can answer this [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 12-21-2004, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: Rockstar ]

[Magness]

I cannot answer your question about dualing and thac0's.

I'm not sure that I'd bother dualing a Swashy to a fighter. For one thing, you may end up losing the thief HLA's (assuming that you have ToB also installed). Pure class swashies are nasty characters. Also, pure swashies are already rather like fighter/thieves to begin with (but without the backstabbing).

OTOH, if you are determined to dual the character, I'd be tempted to stick with assassin for the backstabbing and poison special abilities.

[Armen]

i can't hlep your specific bonus question but i succesfully dualled a swashie(10)->fighter and he worked really well - he was basically a traps and locks thief (find traps works in heavy armour) - minsc handled the stealth in that party

what dualling from swashie does give you is a few extra proficiency points - i took my *** in dual-wielding as a swashie and sword-and-shielded as a fighter until it reactivated

[LennonCook]

As far as I know, THAC0 isn't affected by dual classing. In other words, not only is the swashbuckler bonus not simply discarded when it reactivates, it doesn't dissapear when you first dual class. And if it does dissapear, it wouldn't be stored as a Swashbuckler bonus. You level up, it adjusts your THAC0 accordingly and this is permanant: there is no effect saying "-2 THAC0", you simply have a THAC0 2 lower than you would expect.

[Cerek]

The assassin's ability to Poison Weapon" should not be overlooked. It is one of the more powerful abilities in the game because one hit will disrupt spellcasting for the next couple of rounds.

My solo assassin is still running around the Chateau. I've managed to clear most of the dungeon and am now trying to pick off Illyich and his crew (took out the Glabrezu with 4 traps ). I've also killed at least a dozen or more of those duergar. The fighters are easy - I just run from them, HiS, and Backstab until they are dead. It is a little tricky when I have 3 chasing me, but it can be done.

The mages are bit more challenging because they don't normally chase me AND they have stoneskin, so my backstabs are ineffective. I usually just ignore them until several game hours after they spawn. By then, even their stoneskins eventually wear off. The toughest fight I had so far was when I had to face two duergar mages at one time. I used Vampiric Touch on one and killed him instantly, but his buddy started casting a spell. I poisoned my sword and managed to hit him before he finished his spell, then the poison prevented him from casting another spell at me. My hit triggered his Contingency, which brought up another stoneskin, but I had a 2nd Vampiric Touch from my Bhaalspawn abilities and I killed mage #2 just as easily as mage #1. But if I hadn't been able to poison him and prevent that extra round of spellcasting, I probably would have been hit with confusion or hold person - then the mage could have blasted me with spells until I died.

[Armen]

Originally posted by Cerek: My solo assassin is still running around the Chateau. I've managed to clear most of the dungeon and am now trying to pick off Illyich and his crew (took out the Glabrezu with 4 traps

mine too [img]smile.gif[/img] although i'm setting 6 . . .

i've stacked up 4 mages in the initial 'prison' room so far (not exactly realistic) and taken the glabrezu out with traps - my tactic is going to be to set traps in the corridor then wait in stealth until i get a backstab shot on one of the gang and then flee down the corridor - i just finished playing after the monk decided to go down the corridor anyway [img]smile.gif[/img] 2 down . . . .

[ 12-22-2004, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Armen ]

[Cerek]

Originally posted by Armen: quote: Originally posted by Cerek: My solo assassin is still running around the Chateau. I've managed to clear most of the dungeon and am now trying to pick off Illyich and his crew (took out the Glabrezu with 4 traps

mine too [img]smile.gif[/img] although i'm setting 6 . . .

i've stacked up 4 mages in the initial 'prison' room so far (not exactly realistic) and taken the glabrezu out with traps - my tactic is going to be to set traps in the corridor then wait in stealth until i get a backstab shot on one of the gang and then flee down the corridor - i just finished playing after the monk decided to go down the corridor anyway [img]smile.gif[/img] 2 down . . . . [/QUOTE]So far, I've killed ALL the duergar that have spawned (except for two mages that are still left in the room with all the big tubes). With a solo character, I usually get 1 mage and only 1 or 2 fighters with each spawn. I use Stealth to sneak as far away as possible and still see them, then I fire an arrow at the fighters and RUUUUUN like heck (all the while hoping I make my save vs the Confusion the mage is going to cast at me). I then lead the fighters on a merry chase through the Mineral Deposit Room (where you meet the djinn at the beginning of the game) and into the room with the cells. I fire arrows at one as long as I'm far enough ahead of them, then I run around corners and try to Hide in Shadows. IF I'm successful, then I attempt to Backstab my chosen target. IF I'm unsuccessful, I continue running (towards the cages or back to the Mineral room, depending on which direction is closest). So far, my MOST successful areas for HiS and Backstab are in the room with the big Lightening machine. I run from the Mineral room into the door of that room and then duck around the corner. It's especially funny when I hit the same target twice (or even 3 times) in a row with this move. It seems like they would figure out "hey, this guy keeps running around the corner and disappearing, then stabbing me in the back", but it works and I use it. The other area where I'm amassed a huge pile of duergar body and bones is coming from the cell room towards the Lightening Machine room. I go around the corner and HiS, then backstab. At level 9 and 10, I am getting Quadruple damage, so it only takes about 3 successful backstabs to kill the fighters.

Meanwhile, all of the mages nice pre-buff spells have worn off (except for Stoneskin - dangit). So you can't backstab him (at least not right away). I chose Chaotic Neutral for my alignment and that gives me two Vampiric Touches per day. I have discovered that ONE VT will usually kill the mages. If not, it will take them to Near Death. The only problem is that it triggers their Contingency and yet ANOTHER Stoneskin. (AAAARGH). I will try to hide and snipe them with arrows until I take the Stoneskin down, but this is a long (and painful) process - because it takes several "hits" to break through the Stoneskin. In the meantime, the mage will cast the following spells...

1) Hold Person
2) Web
3) Melf's Acid Arrow
4) Melf's Acid Arrow
5) Magic Missile
6) Magic Missile

The first two spells aren't too bad. I've usually run around the corner and out of sight (which should disrupt the casting but doesn't for some reason), so I just wait for the spell to wear off. The Acid Arrows are a bit worse, but the damage they do varies, so it may or may not damage you too bad. The Magic Missiles are just plain bad news for your thief. If I get hit by those, I usually just reload and try again.

You CAN be cheesy and just keep relaoding until your Vampiric Touch kills the mage. It does a variable amount of damage also (ranging from about 21-32). Most duergar mages seem to have 27hp, so you are bound to kill them sooner or later. But I do try to give them a bit of a sporting chance. Also, you regain a bunch of your hit points when you rest.

If you try the sniping technique above, just keep going till you take down the Stoneskin. Then one backstab will CHUNKIFY the mage into itty bitty pieces every time. VERY satisfying!

Oh...btw....I DID use CNTRL-Y on a few of the duergar because the spawn rate is just too dang fast if you ask me. The ones I used CNTRL-Y on "popped in" while I was in the middle of another battle - usually with the other duergar that "popped in" before this group. So far, I think I've only killed 3 groups with CNTRL-Y. All others have been killed using my assassin abilities.

[Armen]

[img]smile.gif[/img] it's like looking in a mirror (if you see what i mean)

i only just learned how damaging vampiric touch is myself - quite impressive

on the leaving mages sight thing they can still target you from off screen but if you go into stealth before they cast then they 'loose lock' and you're safe - human thieves have terrible saves i'm learning

i must be way off topic now . . .

[Cerek]

After Rasputin fell to my traps, I really didn't feel like resting 3 times to set enough traps to take out Illyich, so my assassin decided he needed to explore the dungeon a bit more. He couldn't go past the library on the ground floor and he has searched every other area he can without facing Illyich and his crew, so he decided to check out the portals he had found that apparantly lead to the next level of the dungeon. He entered the one next to Irenicus' bedroom and found himself in a small room - but no longer alone. A fellow named Yoshimo approached and offered to join forces with Talon. When I learned he was a Bounty Hunter, I decided to accept his offer. He told me the room next to ours was FULL of nasty mephits, so we attacked the spawning portals together - with Yoshimo bravely absorbing most of the damage. We also found some nice loot in the room.

Then I took Yoshimo back down to the previous floor and used HIS traps in addition to mine to set up my next ambush in the hallway. Once that was done, I went around the different areas of the ground floor and had Yoshimo gather up all the robes from the duergar wizards I had killed. I also had him take a helm and necklace I found in Irenicus' room with him. I then told him to go on without me and I would meet him at a prominent inn or tavern once I managed to escape myself.

So he took most of the damage from the mephits, added his traps (including his special snares) for the ambush on Illyich and then served as a convenient mule to haul out a bunch of the booty I had found but couldn't carry myself.

So far, I like the way this partnership is progressing.

[Rockstar]

does anybody else get slightly annoyed at how people just start their own conversations in a thread and they forget what the point of the thread was and what knowledge the starter was seeking lol ?! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

lol friends [img]smile.gif[/img]