help wanted for Dualing to Thief?

[Rockstar]

Hi Everybody,

WARNING: LONG AND COMPLEX POST

lol

Long time no visit... any one remember me?

Ok, i'm about to start a party with a the usual do (a few humans, an elf, a dwarf, etc), and one of them is to be a human archer to later dual class to theif.

Q1) what are the minimum stats that i need to have in order to dual to a thief? I'm pretty sure you mustn't be of lawful alignment but i am unsure of the stats.


Ok the second question i don't expect too many people to be able to answer lol

Q2) I am trying to decide at what level to do the dual class (keeping in mind that this isn't a solo effort so higher levels do not matter). These are the 3 best times to dual class based on what benefits that an archer recieves:

here is a table:

Archer / Thief level | Archer bonuses
|
i) 12 / 39 | +4 H&D ; x3 CS ; 3/4 CS Bonuses
|
ii) 15 / 36 | +5 H&D ; x3 CS ; 3/4 CS Bonuses
|
iii) 16/ 37 | +5 H&D ; x4 CS ; 4/4 CS Bonuses


legend: H&D = hit and damage
CS = called shot


Archer Bonuses are as follows:

4th level: -1 to THACO of target
8th level: -1 to save vs magic of target
12th: -1 to strength of target
16th: +2 bonus to damage


thanks very much to any advice [img]smile.gif[/img]

btw Merry Xmas to everybody here!

[Rockstar]

ohhhh

actually, i'm not sure if you can dual class from a ranger or not? lucky i didn't start it off though [img]smile.gif[/img] lol


can somebody tell me, if it can be done PLEASE... i guess the next best solution to making a thief archer is a fighter/theif multi or dual class specialised in bows

[ 12-18-2004, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: Rockstar ]

[SixOfSpades]

Ranger->Thief is not a valid Dual, the only class a Ranger can legally Dual to is Cleric, and the Archer and Stalker (for whatever stupid reason) cannot Dual at all.

You can, however, download Weimer's Tactics mod, which includes (among many other components, almost all of which increase the difficulty of the game) something called the "Generic Archer kit," which adds a new Fighter kit, the Generic Archer. This is, essentially, a regular Archer who cannot Stealth or cast spells like a Ranger could, but can specialize in melee weapons. It's a bit more powerful than the Ranger Archer, due to the Fighter's faster level progression. It is 100% possible to install the Generic Archer without installing any other components of Tactics.

The Fighter Archer->Thief Dual is very feasible, I've done it myself.

My rules on Dualing a Warrior:
1) Never Dual before Level 13. Your fighting skills are what's going to be chewing through 90% of your enemies, and the extra 1/2 ApR that comes at Level 13 is worth waiting for.
2) Consider stretching it out to Level 15. 2 more points of THAC0, 6 more hitpoints, another weapon proficiency, and improved Saving Throws never hurt anyone, except perhaps a Fighter->Mage who's worried about spellslots.

Now, if you want to take it to Level 16 for the sake of some more damage whenever you actually remember to use Called Shot, that's up to you.

[Rockstar]

thanks six of spades

good to see you again. always could count on you lol

cheers

[Rockstar]

thanks for the help six of spades

it says a kensai cannot use missle weapons?
does this include short/long bows? or just darts and stuff?

[ 12-19-2004, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: Rockstar ]

[Sir Goulum]

Bows are missile weapons.

Um, I believe it is open again, but I'm not sure. Six will know, for sure. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Rockstar]

thanks

I have more questions... it's in a test form lol... i have other ideas on how to make an archer. I got a couple more questions for the forum guru's. Don't worry i don't have my red marking pen out [img]tongue.gif[/img] hehe

Q1) If i have a swashbuckler who gains +1 to AC, +1 to hit and +1 to damage every 5 levels and i dual class him to a fighter at level 15, when i reach level 15 with the fighter class will i recieve the +3 to AC to hit and damage that i left in the swashbuckler class and add them onto my current attributes? or will it only use the fighter's attributes?

Q2) what is the highest weapon specialisation a fighter/thief can obtain? is it ++?

Q3) Do bonuses to hit and damage apply for bows? lol i'm just making sure

Q4) Swashbucklers can be dual classed, can't they? if not how about assassins?

[SixOfSpades]

The only ranged weapons usable by Kensai are those that also have a melee component: Throwing Daggers, Throwing Axes, a certain Throwing Hammer, and (given certain mod content) Throwing Spears. That was a fact, here follows an opinion: The (returning) Throwing Daggers in the game are too cheesy to be used by Warriors: Not only do they add an extra attack per round, but they also do double the damage that a regular dagger can do. Can someone explain why a Dagger flying through the air is so much more deadly than a Dagger on the end of someone's arm? Especially when you consider that the Throwing Daggers use the exact same stats when you use them as melee weapons. I don't mind giving cheesy weapons like these to people like pureclassed Druids and Mages, but putting them in the hands of a Warrior is just too powergamey for me.

Originally posted by Rockstar: Q1) If i have a swashbuckler who gains +1 to AC, +1 to hit and +1 to damage every 5 levels and i dual class him to a fighter at level 15, when i reach level 15 with the fighter class will i recieve the +3 to AC to hit and damage that i left in the swashbuckler class and add them onto my current attributes? or will it only use the fighter's attributes?

I'd be willing to bet that the Swashie bonuses are permanent bonuses and not temporary effects (don't ask me to explain, it can't be done), and therefore should be applied to your Fighter half, as well.

Q2) what is the highest weapon specialisation a fighter/thief can obtain? is it ++?

Single- and Dual-classed Fighters can reach *****, Multiclassed Fighters and all other Warriors can reach **.

Q3) Do bonuses to hit and damage apply for bows?

I believe they do. Try it and see.

Q4) Swashbucklers can be dual classed, can't they? if not how about assassins?

All Thieves can be Dualed, provided they meet the requirements. As far as I know, Rangers are the only class where Dualing permission varies by kit.

[Jorsh]

If you plan to duel with a generic Archer I suggest not getting to level 16. The -1 to strength is much more powerful than +2 extra damage. With the -1 to strength it's possible to kill an enemy by making them reach 0 strength. With 3 attacks per round with a certin short bow combined with your party's wizard's spell that reduces strength to five, you'll be able to take out stronger enemies in no time at all.

[Rockstar]

i think the archer (ranger kit) bonuses are accumulative

also if anybody else knows about whether the swashbuckler's attack bonuses are kept and not overridden/ignored when dual classing to a fighter.

thanks for or the help and any other help

[ 12-20-2004, 01:23 AM: Message edited by: Rockstar ]