Solo Bard vs Improved Druid Grove (with spoilers, of course)

[Cerek the Barbaric]

I'm starting this thread because I'm currently working through the latest version of the Tactics-Enhanced Druid Grove - but I haven't reached the final challenge yet, so I didn't want to derail the Improved Faldorn thread.

My progress thus far has been slow, but ultimately satisfying. The first set of trolls I faced was somewhat challenging as was the large nest of spiders, but both basically centered around proper choice, sequence and placement of spells. My first BIG challenge came at the "Troll Hut" in the bottom right hand corner. I had to rest and regain spells before facing this small group since I had used some of my best spells against the spiders just before this. I also had to rest again after defeating the outside group before I could even consider attacking those inside the hut.

After several failed attempts at clearing the inside of the hut, I finally had to resort to a bit of cheese for success. I had downloaded an upgraded version of Dakkon's Zerth Blade from Arundor's Abode. This version increases the number of spells the wielder gets (just like the original), but it becomes more powerful as the wielder advances in level. But since Tactics increases the number of enemies by roughly the same amount, I felt it was fair to allow my bard to finally use it for the first time.

After many, many attempts, I finally defeated all the trolls in the hut with this strategy -

(1) Pre-buff with Armor, Haste and Improved Invisibility. Enter the hut and attack first troll with blade, but only hit him once. After one successful attack all the trolls were able to pinpoint my location despite having Improved Invisibility up.
(2) After one successful hit, run towards the center of the hut, ALL the trolls (except for the very first one I met) instantly closed in on my location. I basically rounded up EVERY troll in the hut and led them back to towards the front door. The only troll that doesn't move at all is the one that "greets" you at the front door - so I had to lead the pack back to him.
(3) Making sure ALL trolls were within the AoE, I cast Web and relied on my Haste to get me out of the area of effect before it went off (this worked relatively well despite not having any Potions of Freedom on me).
(4) Cast Greater Malison on the group of trolls. This caused the few that had not been trapped by the Web yet to fail their save and become trapped.
(5) Cast Cloudkill. Affected some of the trolls, but not all.
(6) Cast a total of 4 Fireballs in quick succession. It takes a minimum of 4 Fireballs to do enough damage to kill the trolls, which is why I ended up having to use my Improved Zerth Blade. Before using it, I could only get a max of 3 Fireballs and that wasn't enough to kill more than a couple of the trolls. And I simply didn't have enough spells left to counter the regeneration rate of the survivors.
(7) A few trolls managed to escape the Web, but I ignored them until the largest portion were dead. Then I used a second Greater Malison followed by Chromic Orbs. At 12th level, the Orb does 2-16 pts of acid damage automatically and the trolls must save vs spell or be killed instantly. I managed to kill 2 of them with the orbs.
(8) Cast a combination of Melf's Acid Arrows and Chromic Orbs to kill off the last few survivors.

I didn't really like resorting to using the Upgraded Zerth Blade, but I finally realized that I simply did not have enough spells to kill the trolls without it. And since my spells were increased in only a slightly higher ratio than the number of enemies, I felt it was justified. I also plan to "donate" 25,000 gp to a temple of my choice to offset obtaining the blade for "free".

[Cerek the Barbaric]

My next BIG challenge after the Troll Hut is Kyland Lind and his group of Shadow Druids. So far, I've made little to no progress whatsover against this group.

As soon as they go hostile, they apparantly have some elemental protections up. I tried the same basic version of my Troll Hut strategy (trap them with Webs and blast them with Fireballs) and had very little success. After 3 Fireballs, all of the druids were just "Barely Injured", but I did manage to kill a few of their Spirit Animal Companions in the process.

I tried Greater Malison followed by Emotion:Hopelessness. No effect (that I could see, anyway). The druids and Spirit Animals also seem very resistant to my attempts to trap them with a Web at all.

I tried using Cloudkill. This affected the druids, but the Spirit Animals were all immune to it's damage.

I tried advancing just far enough to target the area where they are with the Cloudkill and then running back out of sight so they wouldn't advance and attack. The idea is to simply wait for the pre-buffed protections to wear off because my Dispel Magic had no visible effect on them. This worked if I also became Invisible, but if just ran out of sight and remained visible, the Spirit Animals quickly showed up in pursuit. (on my last attempt, I counted no fewer than NINE animals that I will have to kill).

So my first question is how do I kill the Spirit Animals if they are immune to Cloudkill and seem fairly resistant to Fireballs? I replaced all my Fireball spells with Skull Traps. Hopefully, they won't be as resistant to physical damage as they are to elemental attacks. But I also know there are a couple of spells that automatically kill ALL "summoned" creatures. I believe it is Death Spell and/or Death Fog, but I don't have either one, so it is a relatively moot point. I also need to know if these Spirit Animals are "summoned" or not. If they are, it seems like I could just wait for them to become unsummoned (or would they disappear when the summoner is killed?)

Well, I apologize for being rather long=winded, but I wanted to list the tactics and spells that I had tried so far (without success). So now I need advice on other tactics to try.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Pray.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Illumina Drathiran'ar: Pray.

Wow, thanks a lot, Illumina. LOLOLOL!!! [img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img] If this were the "real" world, I would say that Prayer would be my best option. Even if it was a PnP game, I could at least try for Diety Intervention. Unfortunately, Black Isle didn't put that particular function in the game.

Well, I've tried just about every strategy and tactic I can think of and nothing has worked worth a hill of beans yet. I've got a couple more variations to try, then I guess I'll just have to give in and use CTRL Y on the Spirit Companions. [img]graemlins/dontknowaboutyou.gif[/img]

Still, I would really like to hear some advice and suggestions that others have to offer to see if we could come up with an eclectic solution to beat this encounter.

[Imrahil]

Hmmm... a solo (Level 13, right?) Skald vs. Improved Kylan Lind & friends... this is gonna be tough.

Most of the things I thought of would require you getting some scrolls from Trademeet, which would require you to solve the Djinni problem. Since Ihtafeer is after Kylan, you could always kill the Djinn rather than helping them. You should then be able to get scrolls from the merchant in the tent beside the Djinn.

You should be able to get Death Fog (which, unlike Death Spell, won't insta-kill summons, but does persistant damage), Spell Sequencer, & maybe Improved Haste, IIRC.

Try setting up a Minor Sequencer with 2 Webs (or maybe Grease if Web doesn't seem to be working). Haste/Improved Haste yourself, plus Improved Invis, Stoneskin, maybe even Armor depending on what you're wearing.

Launch your Sequencer from where you can see the mob, but Kylan hasn't spoken yet. Then move to where he can see you (so everything will turn hostile) & cast Greater Malison (since I don't think it will affect them if they're still Blue), followed by Death Fog (using cast-and-attack where possible to get in a few arrows/darts/whatever).

Then run. See if you can lure the ones who don't get stuck to a choke point (may take a couple of Reloads to find a good spot) & fill the choke point with Skull Traps.

Hopefully at this point the Fog has done a lot of damage & you can mop up with Summons (Acorns, (Improved) Kitthix?, Horn of Valhalla? Wand of Monster Summoning from Chateau Irenicus [sold & bought back to recharge of course], Monster Summoning spells, Spider Summoning, Animate Dead - any of those available?).

Use hit & run tactics to lure a few off at a time. If you're not doing much damage fighting, try singing - it'll boost your Summons at least.

You can always run into the Troll Mound if you need to retreat & heal up (though you can't rest in there). I know that after a while Kylan will "give up" & leave, so you may just need to survive long enough, rather than try to kill everything.

Good luck! Let us know if any of that helps... you can always just sneak past them while Hasted & Invisible - you don't necessarily have to kill them.

- Imrahil

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Imrahil: Hmmm... a solo (Level 13, right?) Skald vs. Improved Kylan Lind & friends... this is gonna be tough. Most of the things I thought of would require you getting some scrolls from Trademeet, which would require you to solve the Djinni problem. Since Ihtafeer is after Kylan, you could always kill the Djinn rather than helping them. You should then be able to get scrolls from the merchant in the tent beside the Djinn. You should be able to get Death Fog (which, unlike Death Spell, won't insta-kill summons, but does persistant damage), Spell Sequencer, & maybe Improved Haste, IIRC. Try setting up a Minor Sequencer with 2 Webs (or maybe Grease if Web doesn't seem to be working). Haste/Improved Haste yourself, plus Improved Invis, Stoneskin, maybe even Armor depending on what you're wearing. Launch your Sequencer from where you can see the mob, but Kylan hasn't spoken yet. Then move to where he can see you (so everything will turn hostile) & cast Greater Malison (since I don't think it will affect them if they're still Blue), followed by Death Fog (using cast-and-attack where possible to get in a few arrows/darts/whatever). Then run. See if you can lure the ones who don't get stuck to a choke point (may take a couple of Reloads to find a good spot) & fill the choke point with Skull Traps. Hopefully at this point the Fog has done a lot of damage & you can mop up with Summons (Acorns, (Improved) Kitthix?, Horn of Valhalla? Wand of Monster Summoning from Chateau Irenicus [sold & bought back to recharge of course], Monster Summoning spells, Spider Summoning, Animate Dead - any of those available?). Use hit & run tactics to lure a few off at a time. If you're not doing much damage fighting, try singing - it'll boost your Summons at least. You can always run into the Troll Mound if you need to retreat & heal up (though you can't rest in there). I know that after a while Kylan will "give up" & leave, so you may just need to survive long enough, rather than try to kill everything. Good luck! Let us know if any of that helps... you can always just sneak past them while Hasted & Invisible - you don't necessarily have to kill them. - Imrahil

Thanks for the strategy breakdown, Imrahil. At least I've been pretty much on the right track with my tactics so far, cause I've done most of what you are suggesting (at least what parts I can). Here is my base strategy so far...

My pre-buff spells are Stoneskin, Haste, and Improved Invisibiility. I don't have Improved Haste available nor do I have Spell Sequencer. My Skald is now 14th level after defeating all the trolls, but that's still not high enough for 6th level spells.

My original opening sequence was to cast Web (which does not make the group turn hostile) followed by Grease, then Cloudkill. The last two do cause the enemy to turn hostile. I was then running forward to get as many enemies as possible within sight and cast Greater Malison. This would cause some that had Saved against the Web to fail and become stuck. I would then unload 3 consecutive Fireballs on the assembled enemy, but it did very little damage. The druids are literally "glowing" with protection spells and obviously one of those spells is Protection from Fire. I then tried exchanging Skull Traps for the Fireballs, trading elemental damage for physical damage. That worked fairly well - especially on the Spirit Companions. But the limited range keeps it from affecting the entire group.

I've tried setting up the ambush you mentioned. The "choke point" I chose was at the top of the screen where you encounter the troll and Greater Earth Elemental after the troll hut. I set all 3 Skull Traps there and then tried to wait until ALL of the Spirit Animals had escaped the Web, Cloud, Grease area and gathered around my Invisible Bard. I then ran straight for the Skull Traps and counted on my first Stoneskin to absorb most of the damage done to me. This actually worked fairly well, killing 3-4 animals outright and weakening the next 3-4 down to Badly Injured or Near Death. The only problem is that at least a couple of animals escape any injury at all. And when the animals escape, at least 1-2 druids manage to escape with them and follow me casting Insect Plague.

Another spell I have tried with some success is Dire Charm on one of the druids. This accomplishes two things. First, I can now use his spells against the other druids, and the animals will now attack him since he is considered an "enemy". Still, this only grants me a temporary reprieve at best.

I've tried to summon the moose and nymphs with the acorns and also casting Monster Summoning III, but none of them have much success or last very long against the animals. Even the Moose usually dies in 2-3 rounds at the most. I dearly wish I had Kitthix (and especially the Improved version), the Horn of Valhalla, or Spider Spawn. That would work very well with the Webs I cast, but for now, I have to depend on myself to kill them while they are trapped in the Web.

All of my 1st level slots are filled with Chromatic Orb. Since I'm over 12th level, it does 2-16 pts of acid damage AND the victim must also Save vs Spell or be killed instantly. If I could lure the animals away and kill them, I plan to use 2 Greater Malison followed by Chromatic Orbs to try to kill the druids. Of course, the improved version of Zerth blade I downloaded is a +5 weapon in addition to the other advantages. Combine Haste with one of my two innate Draw Upon Holy Mights, and I should be able to handle my own in melee with the druids.

So far, the most successful tactic I've found is to simply open with Cloudkill and then run behind the boulder to my left and hide as soon as the spell is cast. If I turn Invisible, all the druids and animals will stay in their original position and the druids will take damage for the full duration of the spell. But as soon as I come back to cast my next spell, some of the animals will charge across towards me and attack and will soon be followed by the druids. IF the Cloudkill would also incapacitate the druids, I could attack the animals while the druids are still hacking and coughing in the Cloud, but they seem to be relatively UN-affected by the spell the second time around. Right now, my next strategy is to cast the Cloudkill and let the druids suck up 10 rounds of damage. Then just sit and wait for their protections to finally wear off. I will then come back with Haste and Improved Invisibility and give the Triple Fireball Combo another chance. If the protections are down, 3 Fireballs should get them down far enough for Acid Arrows and Chromatic Orbs to kill them with the acid damage alone. Hopefully, the Fireballs will also kill (or at least seriously wound) the Spirit Animals too.

I thought about trying to run back to the Troll Hut and ducking in there to recover from their attacks, but didn't know if they would follow me in or not.

And I also HAD thought about trying to just run past them while Hasted and Invisible and continuing on without facing them. Didn't know if that would work or not either, though.

I'll give it a few more tries before giving up for good. And I will definitely let you know what eventually happens.

[Imrahil]

Remember that you can cast spells directly from scrolls if you aren't high enough level to memorize them - that would let you make use of Death Fog (still think it might be worth it to solve the Djinn problem, shop, then come back), Death Spell (can't remember a good place to get that one), maybe a 2nd Cloudkill.

What about Stinking Cloud? That might knock out some of the Druids, allowing you to get in some free hits. Do you have Ice Storm? The more persistant AoE spells you can pile on, the better, & while they could have Resist Fire/Cold, they won't be as resistant to Cold as they would to Fire w/ Protection from Fire.

If one of the Druids casts Insect Plague at you, you can run into the Troll Mound - it won't follow you in & will eventually fizzle (this will also disrupt any spell they were in the middle of casting - try it out with Kangaxx's Guardians - very cheesy [img]smile.gif[/img] ). I doubt the monsters will follow you into the Mound, either.

Do you have any Wands available? How about any of the Elemental Staves? Are you willing to use the Mislead cheese? You should be able to cast at will while using that (plus your Mislead can Sing).

Just tossing out ideas at this point... [img]smile.gif[/img]

- Imrahil

[Assassin]

Erm... My guess would be to Remove Magic and use the Wand of Fire for your Fireballs. Also, remember that you can outrun an Insect Plague indefinately, if you have enough speed enhancers on you. I might also suggest using Greater Malison and Spook to 'assassinate' select members that are alive.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

[img]graemlins/yippee.gif[/img] I DID IT!!!! [img]graemlins/yippee.gif[/img]

In my first game after reading your comments, I decided to try your suggestion of just running past them while Hasted and Improved Invisible. Oddly enough, they apparantly heard me and gave chase. I ran past them and across the bridge filled with Myconids and tried to attack from there, but eventually died.

One quick Reload later and I tried running past them again. This time, they did not hear me and just stood their ground. Since I was just testing different strategies, I decided to just go ahead and start casting my Skull Traps on them. I still got killed in that game, but discovered 3 Skull Traps would kill almost all 10 of the Spirit Companions and would usually have all the druids down to at least "Badly Injured". I also learned that it was MORE effective to cast my Skull Traps one at a time rather than trying to lead the group into an ambush. With the Skull Traps pre-set, the damage would only affect the first few to come through and the enemies at the end would be completely uninjured. So I made some revisions to my game plan and tried again. This is how I managed to beat the entire group.

Step 1 - PreBuffed with Stoneskin, Haste, Draw Upon Holy Might, and Improved Invisibility.
Step 2 - Run through the group and stop just before going onto the bridge (making sure that I do not close enough to the bridge to reveal the first myconid).
Step 3 - I cast my first Skull Trap towards the group. I have to move forward a step to do this and that initiates the dialogue with Kyland Lind, which then causes all 5 druids and 10 animals to come charging towards me.
Step 4 - Cast my second Skull Trap while Kyland is still talking. The front-runners in the group would go past my fist S.T. without setting it off for some reason, but I targeted the second one to appear right in the middle of the onrushing group and that would set both Skull Traps off at once. The resulting explosion would usually kill at least 3 of the Animal Companions.
Step 5 - Cast my last two Skull Traps while the druids and their companions have me surrounded (btw, I memorized an extra Skull Trap after learning how close 3 came to killing the animals). If all 4 traps were cast successfully, the damage would kill all 10 of the Animal Companions. It also brought ALL of the Druids down to Near Death or Badly Injured (at the very worst).
Step 6 - I would Pause the game and place my cursor over each enemy to see how badly they were injured. I would then Un-Pause the game and run past the druids, quickly drinking a much-needed Potion of Extra Healing.
Step 7 - While the druids are turning to follow me and renew their attacks, I cast Dire Charm at the strongest remaining druid. If he failed his Save, his buddies would then turn on him. (I sometimes used a Greater Malison on them to help ensure the Dire Charm would work).
Step 8 - Use my new best friend and cast Insect Plague on the remaining druids. This isn't necessarily the best move, since the druids are all attacking each other and ignoring me now anyway. When the Insect Plague hit, several of them gave in to Fear and began running around, which scattered them out more than I wanted.
Step 9 - I wanted all the druids close together because my final step was to trap them in a Web, then cast Cloudkill to finish ALL of them off. Even though the Insect Plague scattered them more than I wanted, I still managed to cath all of them (including Kyland - who never left like he was supposed to) in the Web/Cloudkill combo.
Step 10 - I cast my second Stoneskin and prepare to fire away with Acid Arrows or Magic Missiles at any druids that managed to survive the Cloud (none did).

So there it is. It took the entire weekend, but I finally found a way to beat the Trolls in the Troll Mound AND Kyland Lind and the Shadow Druids without resorting to any mega-cheese and even without using the Dryad's Acorns in either fight. My bard beat them all with a completely "solo" effort. [img]graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[Hank Parsons]

Congrats on winning this battle in a solo effort.

I found this to be of the hardest non-boss battles in Tactics (along with the Minor Avatar of Sekolah battle in Improved Saugin City).

It's a lot of enemies! Those spirit animals really add to the challenge of this party-fight.