High Damage Backstab Query

[Dace De'Briago]

This is all theoretical, I may actually make this character at one point but...

The character is L25 Assassin/27 fighter.

Assume a strength of 24 (+4 to hit, +12 to damage - if it is possible to get 25 legit, feel free to up this )
Assassin kit bonus of +1 to hit, + 1 to damage

Rather than using the staff of the ram as standard, I was wondering how effective Celestial Fury +5 and Quietus +4 would be.

Celestial Fury: 1d10 base + 5 to hit, +5 to damage
Quietus: 1d4 base, but we are only interested in the extra +1 backstab multiplier it provides.

So this assassin would have a backstab multiplier of x8.

The only other influencing factor I could think of is the grand mastery in katanas this character would undoubtably have.

Jim, how close would this character get to the max backstab record set by the SoTR? The main benefit with this setup is that the character would get the extra attacks because of 2 weapons... imp haste and assassination would be quite interesting to watch.

I would really like to know the max damage this character could do on a backstab. Thanks.

[Pyrenk]

Find Jim.

[JrKASperov]

I could try for the calculation. If I got it right, everything is multiplied EXCEPT the strength damage. Wasn't that right? So:

15 (CF)
5 (Grandmastery)
1 (Assassin Bonus)
2 (Bracers of Weapon Specialization)
-----+
23
8 (backstab)
-----*
184
14 (Strength)
-----+
198
2 (critical hit)
-----*
Would bring you to a wopping 396 damage.

EDIT: Apparently, you get +5 bonus from grandmastery, I didnt factor that in yet. Also, criticals are multiplied only on the very very end. (both make substantial bonuses too)

[ 08-20-2003, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: JrKASperov ]

[Xen]

25 STR is possible

Starting STR of 19 +3 from hell (you get +1 to your primary stat when you give in to the taint fighting Wraith Sarevok as well as the +2 from the tear of Bhaal) +1 MoTLM +1 DOMT =24 natural STR. Then steal the holy symbol from a neighbouring post level 25 cleric and BAM 25 STR .

[JrKASperov]

After rereading the thread with those massive backstabs, I've found the one factor that is making this character nto breaking the assassin fighter record: the attacking of an unarmed civilian grants a +4 bonus.

Your character has a maximum backstab HIGHER than the Assassin fighter mentioned in the massive critical thread. Because, without this +4 bonus, the assassin fighter would ONLY get a 392 damage, whereas your character would get 396

[Jim]

First, a few very slight nitpicks:

The character is L25 Assassin/27 fighter.

A level 25 assassin needs 330000 XP. A level 27 fighter needs 475000 XP, so we can't quite manage this. We'll have to settle for 25 Assassin/26 Fighter although this will not alter the outcome.

Assume a strength of 24 (+4 to hit, +12 to damage - if it is possible to get 25 legit, feel free to up this )

24 STR will provide +12 to damage, but +6 to hit rather than +4 (IIRC). Again, the damage is unaltered.

Celestial Fury: 1d10 base + 5 to hit, +5 to damage Quietus: 1d4 base, but we are only interested in the extra +1 backstab multiplier it provides.

I'm not familiar with Quietus, but if it does indeed provide +1 backstab multiplier, then combining with CF+5 is a smart thing to do. This seems to be the most damaging single handed weapon that can be used to backstab.

Jim, how close would this character get to the max backstab record set by the SoTR?

I don't think it can take the backstab crown but it certainly will produce some devastating damage. The SoTR+6 has such high base damage, combined with the extra +1 to damage that can be aquired through ** in Two Handed Weapon Style, but lets consult the numbers.

JrKASperov, that's damn nearly right. The only (minor) problems I can find with your calculations are that; firstly, you are correct that the STR damage is not multiplied in the backstab, but it is multiplied in the critical hit. Secondly (and finally), if the Grand Mastery patch is installed (which it was when I tested the damage using the SoTR+6), GM gives +5 to damage rather than +3, but for the unpatched game, you are entirely correct.

For 25 STR, refer to Xen's post.

The finalised damage is therefore +5 from proficiency, 1D10+5 for the weapon, +1 kit bonus, +14 from STR and +2 from the GoES. Therefore (assuming the full D10 is rolled):

Backstab = (((5+15+1+2)*8)+14 = 198)*2 = 396 critical damage (therefore we are 66 down on the 462 aquired by the SoTR+6 backstab). Still a very powerful assault, but the staff has a substantial lead, even when CF+5 is used in conjunction with a * 8 backstab. Interesting idea though Dace.

[Jim]

Originally posted by JrKASperov: After rereading the thread with those massive backstabs, I've found the one factor that is making this character nto breaking the assassin fighter record: the attacking of an unarmed civilian grants a +4 bonus.

Well spotted! Yes, we can add +4 to the damage if we are attacking an unarmed/missile weapon equiped invididual...

Backstab = (((5+15+1+2+4)*8)+14 = 198)*2 = 460 damage! Very close indeed, but still 2 points shy.

[ 08-20-2003, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: Jim ]

[Jim]

Your character has a maximum backstab HIGHER than the Assassin fighter mentioned in the massive critical thread. Because, without this +4 bonus, the assassin fighter would ONLY get a 392 damage, whereas your character would get 396

Hmmm, without the +4 bonus, the CF+5/Quietus Assassin/Fighter strikes for 396 on a critical (potential maximum) and the SoTR+6 Assassin/Fighter strikes for 406 damage, so there is still a deficit (remember that the proficiency bonus would be +6 rather than +5 when using the staff).

The SoTR+6 never did incorporate the +1D4 piercing damage it was supposed to, so (if we are using the fixed version), we can potentially add a further 4 damage to the SoTR calculation (although this would not be multiplied either by the backstab or by the critical), giving the Fighter/Assassin with SoTR+6 a maximum of 410 damage vs. 396.

Since we're using weapons here that do not appear in the official game (both CF+5 and Quietus+4), one could question their legitimacy. If one was to release a mod that contained a weapon that provided a * 10 backstab multiplier and 30 base damage, then all records would obviously be thrown out the window. What are your opinions on this? Personally, I feel that the maximum legitimate backstab should only be achievable using an unmodded but fully patched game.

[ 08-20-2003, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: Jim ]

[JrKASperov]

I think a backstab of 100+ is damn well enough Priveded that fighter thieves iwll be able to pull this of about 6 to 10 times per round with imp. haste and assassination or mislead. Anyway, sorry for the miscalculation about your staff assassin my bad.

[Lord Lothar]

Where do you find Quietus? Is it in the Item Upgrade Mod?