cheating or not--whats your oppinion?

[Decurion]

I was wondering about a couple things so I thought I would pole the waters so to speak, on the subject of cheating. What do people consider to be cheating? I have realized that with the experience cap often multi classers reach the cap before they fully level up. I have also heard that you could remove this...xp cap. So, I was wondering whether or not the good users of this forums could enlighten me on whether or not they think that this is cheating, and then describe and discuss what IS considered by said users to be cheating. Thanks a lot.

[mmkay]

i dont think removing the xp cap is cheating, but spawning items with theCLUA console is. I think it should be used either if you ablosutely MUST or you have already beaten the game and want to see what you can get for kicks and gigles.

[Imrahil]

Cheating that I don't really consider cheating would be limited to...

- XP Cap remover (I feel like it's cheating to put it in there in the first place! [img]smile.gif[/img]
- fixing a bug (i.e. a person is supposed to be *here*, but he's not so you spawn him in or one of your guys gets "stuck" & won't move so warp to a different area)
- retrieving a "forgotten" quest item (you legitimately found the item but forgot where you put it - this only happened to me once & since then I've learned the value of having a central storage location - typically my Stronghold)
- beating an "impossible" battle (this one's a bit of a grey area, but if you absolutely can't get past a certain battle after many reloads, to the point where you're considering quitting the game entirely, then by all means, cheat - this applies to annoying mazes as well, IMO)

Beyond that, though, I'd recommend completing the game at least once before cheating, but after that... cheat away, guilt-free! It's fun to create an uber-Fighter with all the best weapons & stomp everyone or make a Sorcerer with a Wild Mage kit, for instance (or, for that matter, a weakling with low HP, just to see if you can make it through). [img]smile.gif[/img]

- Imrahil

[madjim]

Hmm, I think any editing, with the exception of legitimate bug fixing, is cheating. Do I cheat? Er, next question please.

Bow to the meow

[LennonCook]

For BG2 atleast, I would say cheating is anything that uses a third-party program past Bioware and Baldurdash patches, or directly editing the game code.
On your first game, I would push for no cheating what so ever (unless you run into an annoying bug - after you have made sure that it is a bug). After that, though, there are mods about. These *are* cheating IMO, but they are justified on a repeat-play because they bring a fresh challenge to the game (or get you into the game itself a fair sight faster... )

Obviously, this definition doesn`t work for some other games, where you simply have to type something for invincibility, without having to edit any files.

[Sever]

The first few times i played through was in the protective sanctuary of a non-online house. Fun. After that i stumbled into IW and before long was educated in the art of cheating (you lot have corrupted me [img]graemlins/crying.gif[/img] ). I now use the cheats that are not really cheats. In fact i wonder how i ever managed to do without some of them. CTRL-jumping is essential. SetCurrentXP(x) is not. CTRL-Y, why bother playing the game in the first place.

This is only whilst playing the game.

When exploring weapon combos, spell tactics, battle strategies, multi-class combinations or whatever, cheats are essential. You're not seriously going to start a new game with a halfling sorceror to find out if his energy blades spell is effective against the Big M without cheating!

Indeed, the cheats are not implemented into the game to help players who are too stupid or have ADD. They are made to help designers and playtesters get the job done before the game technology is made obsolete.
IMO the only reason the cheats are not taken out of the game before release is to help people with the brains and motivation to design mods for the benefit of all users.

[karlosovic]

The first time I EVER used a cheat for BG2 was on my second run-through. I didn't do the thieves guild on my first go, this time I was playing a Thief so obviously I wanted to clear out Mae'Var
SPOILER !!!!!!!!!!!
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after doing the first couple of tasks for mae'var and edwin, the red wizard confronted me with the truth and I denied. he then left with a certain quest needed item and after HOURS of beating my head against a wall I realised I wasn't getting into the strong box for either love or money. the search online began and eventually I came across a program called shadow keeper, and the key was mine. I have since discovered my mistake (with edwin that is...)
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END of SPOILER

this sort of situation is when it's legitimate to cheat. (I'd saved over any chance of going back and replaying the encounter, and I wasn't going to start a whole new game just because of this). ctrl-j to jump about is OK as a time saver, but not to teleport out of difficult situations (although you should be careful not to teleport away from someone trying to innitiate dialogue). ctrl-y is just wrong. but why are mods cheating LennonCook ???
I use many mods now, eg Valen, Nalia, Imoen, Tashia. these are all good roleplay mods that just add a new character (and all are well balanced IMHO). expanded thief stronghold makes things lots bloody HARDER ! and the item upgrade mod ?? well you DO get uber-weapons, but you have to pay a lot for them, both in gold and equipment.

[Brennihelvete]

Cheating or whatnot...I use cheats if I feel for it. If theres an item I need for some purpose and it lies in an inaccesible area or lies afar far away in a place that I've been before, I'll use the Clua Console to get it instead of wasting time going back and find it. I dont want to waste my time and when I see that I will waste my time on doing something, I'll use the console instead. Also spellscrolls that Im unable to find, though I have been looking for it anywhere, I will use the Clua Console to get them. It's happend twice that I used SetCurrentXP...first time was after Nalias Keep...I'd done everything right, been nice to the mother and everything but I only got 1000 xp points when completing the quest. Usually you got 40k. I asked in this forum what might have been the cause but there was no logical answer. I gave myself the XP reward and moved on...
The second time was when I moved onto ToB... I used the XP cap remover and had had a lvl 19-21 party...Now when moving onto ToB the XP is reset to the e XP cap in BG2 which means I would still be lvl 19-21 but have the xp of a lvl 18-20 party... Lots of XP was lost so I adjusted it back to the XP they had after defeating Irenicus.

I only use cheats when somethings wrong, a bug occur or I simply dont want to waste my time...

[Cerek the Barbaric]

I use cheats and I enjoy them. After all, it is just a game. If bending a few rules makes it more enjoyable for me, I see no problem with it.

I've never used CLUA to give myself EXP points, but I have given myself a ton of gold and a case full of Identify scrolls using it. That just made the game easier as I got into the more difficult encounters and ended up getting 5 or 6 magic items after the battle. I'm not going to trade my Magic Missiles for Identify, so I just added scrolls as needed.

I did take advantage of a recurring bug in BGII that allows you to PAUSE the game and Replay a scene to keep getting Quest Experience over and over. Usually, I would do this enough times to raise everybody one level.

I've also used CLUA to get items from alternate sites (like Arundors Abode) that I really liked or that suited my characters well.

The one thing I found by doing this was that it DID tend to make the game grow dull after awhile. After defeating the first two dragons, the Guarded Compound, and the Twisted Rune....I found the game became less and less enjoyable. Why?? Because I was "steamrolling" over all the enemies I encountered while taking only minimal damage to my party in the process. I got so bored in the Underdark that I actually quit playing the game for over 2 months.

One area where I firmly disagree with most of the other posters is that you should wait until you beat the game once before using any cheats. To me, the purpose of cheats is to make the game easier or more survivable. And the time to do that is when you are learning the game..not after you've already beaten it. You want to make the challenges harder as you go along...not easier.

I am currently playing my 2nd game of BGII. This time, I have only used 1 cheat..and that was to give my assassin a custom-made item that doesn't seriously alter game balance. I've also installed several Weimer Mods. And I disagree that this is cheating. On my first trip through (without the Mods), I defeated Ilyich and his friends in Chateau Irenicus with a Stinking Cloud followed by a Fireball (yawn). After installing the Tactics Mod, I spent an entire weekend trying to find a way to defeat them. That's not cheating, that's improving the challenges of the game.

As I play BGII more and more, I use cheats less and less. That way, the game becomes more challenging each time I play it.

[Radek]

I think LennonCook is mostly right. Here are my definitions:
Cheating = using any kind of "third party" programs (programs, which are not authorized by the creators of the game) for modifying the game behavior. Using binary editors, game editors, viewers, or special programs that interfere with the game run is cheating.
Cheezy style = taking advantage from an obvious bug or misunderstanding in the game.
Let us note, that using CLUA Console or "cheat codes" is not cheating because it is an integral and documented part of the game. IMO, the console and the "cheat codes" should not be present in the game at all. Otherwise, we cannot sentence players which begin the game with Blackrazors in hands of the "heroes".
On the other hand, "mods" are more difficult question. If you install a "mod" then you are playing a different game. Therefore, it's a question whether a "mod" is cheating. IMO, the XP cap remover is a "mod".