I'm so glad that war's over.

[Timber Loftis]

Aren't you? Yes, the American success in Iraq is truly a model for the future.

From NY Times -- where liberals go to roost.
Iraq's President Says 50 Bodies Pulled From Tigris River
By RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr.
and ROBERT F. WORTH

BAGHDAD, April 20 - The new Iraqi president said today that more than 50 bodies had been discovered in the Tigris River and suggested they were victims of a massive kidnapping south of Baghdad that Iraqi officials insisted was a hoax just three days ago.

President-elect Jalal Talabani, who made the surprise assertion after a meeting with Shiite leaders over dividing up top jobs in the new government, offered no details about the crime, including when or precisely where the bodies were found.

Mr. Talabani, in his comments to reporters, offered no documentation that could help independently verify his statement, like a list of victims, photographs of the bodies, or the names of witnesses. He said the government knew the names of victims and had such photographs, however.

In the latest bizarre turnabout in a succession of claims about whether any kidnappings occurred, Mr. Talabani said that hostages had , in fact, been killed, and their bodies thrown into the Tigris. An American military spokesman in Baghdad said today that he had no information about the bodies.

The pronouncement came amid continuing violence in the country, as 20 Iraqi troops were taken from their trucks near the western city of Haditha, dragged to a soccer stadium and lined up against the wall and shot, according to an official in the Interior Ministry. Nineteen of the Iraqis died, and one was taken to a hospital, the official said.

Later today, a suicide car bomb went off near the headquarters of Prime Minister Ayad Allawi's political party in Baghdad, a police official told news agencies. At least one person was killed.

In an interview this evening, an aide to Mr. Talabani elaborated on the president's comments about the bodies, saying that there are names and pictures of the victims, and names of the killers, in the possession of the government.

"There were hostages who were killed and thrown into the Tigris, and we found 50 dead bodies," the aide said. He said other details would be released soon.

Regardless of whether Mr. Talabani's claims are later verified, the massacre in Haditha came amid a renewed surge of insurgent attacks - including six deaths and three suicide car bombings today in Baghdad - that have underlined anew the challenges facing the new government expected to take power in the coming days.

The violence, which has left dozens dead in Baghdad alone over the past week, has called into question suggestions that the tide in the war here is clearly turning.

The kidnapping dispute threw the nation into turmoil last weekend, as Shiite leaders claimed Sunni terrorists had pulled off a large-scale abduction of Shiite men, women and children in the town of Madaen, south of the capital.

But on Sunday, after surrounding and searching the town, Iraqi troops found no bodies or hostages, and suggested that the accusations were fabricated. Prime Minister Allawi, among other leaders, confirmed that no hostages had been found and said that lurid accusations about violence there appeared to be false.

Shiite leaders remain angry that their assertions of a massive kidnapping were widely discredited. Mr. Talabani made his comments to reporters today after a session with top Shiite leaders where the officials continued their horse-trading over who would be awarded top posts in the new government.

Shiite leaders, who hold a majority of seats in the parliament, are negotiating with other factions - including Kurdish officials led by Mr. Talabani - over how many cabinet posts each side will get.

Mr. Talabani's comments revived accusations that could prove politically explosive. If the hostage massacre is confirmed, it could worsen tensions between Shiites, who form the dominant partners in the new government, and the disaffected Sunni minority. Some Sunni political figures have expressed anger that they are not better represented in the assembly.

Sunnis, who dominated the country under the rule of Saddam Hussein, also dominate the insurgency, and some hard-line Sunni figures have reacted with fury to the accusations about the Madaen hostages, calling the charges a ruse to justify invading Sunni-dominated towns south of Baghdad.

If the past is any guide, many Sunnis will continue to take that stance even if Iraq's political leaders try to resolve the matter by providing the names of the victims and killers, as Mr. Talabani said today that he would do.

Iraqi leaders say they are on the verge of announcing their new cabinet - perhaps on Thursday - and senior Iraqi officials had warned that they expected insurgents to launch a new round of attacks timed to news of the new government.

[Sir Degrader]

Well that made my day.

[Azred]

Well, once Hussein was gone anyone with a lick of sense knew that political house-cleaning would occur, along with a healthy dose of "righting old wrongs".

How are these items any different, or any more disturbing than, anything else that had been occurring lately?

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Azred: How are these items any different, or any more disturbing than, anything else that had been occurring lately?

Just trying to keep it fresh. Every day, there's tragedy over there. Obviously, I feel the war was not the correct logical or moral decision -- though I do recognize its legality. I don't approve of warhawkishness, nor do I agree with our new allocation of resources to support such efforts. And, I see so much of it as just use of the military to have giveaways to government cronies. Sure, we each get strip searched for an hour delay at the airport, but nothing has been done with safeguarding the ports -- in over 3 years. NOte that the great generation helped save 2 continents in that time period. Note that twice as much ($40 million) was spent investigating in what Monica Lewinsky did with a cigar to give it that special flavor than was spent on the 9-11 commission.

Yet, we go blithely along. So long as it's somebody else dying, not me, though, right?

[Azred]

This is why the country always needs cynical critics like you, Timber. I, myself, hope I come across as cynical at times--one does one's best, you know. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

The government has tightened security at airports, but only at the expense of everything else. The borders are wide open, as ports--as you suggest--are also revolving doors. Despite what our beloved leaders might say, the country is not secure, nor can it be made to be secure. When the merde hits the fan, all the plastic sheeting and duct tape in the world won't save you.

[johnny]

Never underestimate the quality of a good Cuban cigar Timber.

[Timber Loftis]

Monica was Cuban?

But, since you mentioned it, I'm a Cohiba man.

[ 04-21-2005, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[shamrock_uk]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: And, I see so much of it as just use of the military to have giveaways to government cronies. Sure, we each get strip searched for an hour delay at the airport, but nothing has been done with safeguarding the ports -- in over 3 years.

A rather damning report into the TSA's efforts to get more money from the taxpayer without delivering improvements.

[shamrock_uk]

Apparently there is more to these bodies from the river than was initially reported. Story here.

[Jorath Calar]

Anyone find it weird that the US clean out the talibans in Afghanistan but instill a president in Iraq named Talabani?

You's think he would be disqualified by default... [img]smile.gif[/img]