Visit the Ironworks Gaming Website Email the Webmaster Graphics Library Rules and Regulations Help Support Ironworks Forum with a Donation to Keep us Online - We rely totally on Donations from members Donation goal Meter

Ironworks Gaming Radio

Ironworks Gaming Forum

Go Back   Ironworks Gaming Forum > Ironworks Gaming Forums > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-25-2004, 07:13 AM   #1
Dreamer128
Dracolisk
 

Join Date: March 21, 2001
Location: Europe
Age: 40
Posts: 6,136

The U.S. government has cited China as the No. 1 threat to global security for the second time in less than a month.
Both the Pentagon and the Commission on U.S-China Economic and Security Review cited Beijing as a major threat to U.S. national security. The two reports noted the growing military capability of China combined with its predatory economic policy is aimed directly at the United States.


The latest report released by the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission was approved by a "unanimous vote of all eleven Commissioners." According to the Commission China's co-operation on international security matters is "un-satisfactory."

The Commission examined in depth the extent of ongoing co-operation between China and the United States on traditional national security matters, most particularly China's assistance in re-solving the North Korea nuclear weapons crisis. The Commission believes that China's performance in this area to date has been unsatisfactory, and we are concerned that U.S. pressure on trade disputes and other unrelated aspects of the relationship may have been toned down by the administration as a concession for China's hoped-for cooperation on this and other vital security matters."
Economic War

According to the report, China is deliberately using economic warfare against America to seek a "competitive advantage over U.S. manufacturers."

"Economic fundamentals suggest that the Chinese yuan is undervalued, with a growing consensus of economists estimating the level of undervaluation to be anywhere from fifteen to forty percent. The Chinese government persistently intervenes in the foreign exchange market to keep its exchange rate pegged at 8.28 yuan per dollar, and through these actions appears to be manipulating its currency valuation," states the report.

The Commission also noted that China is violating its pledges to the World Trade Organization and that U.S. investors may actually be investing in the PLA military expansion.

"China has deliberately frustrated the effectiveness and debased the value of the WTO's TRM (Transitional Review Mechanism) which was intended to be a robust mechanism for assessing China's WTO compliance and for placing multilateral pressure on China to address compliance shortfalls."

"Without adequate information about Chinese firms trading in international capital markets, U.S. investors may be unwittingly pouring money into black box firms lacking basic corporate governance structures, as well as enterprises involved in activities harmful to U.S. security interests," noted the report.

Weapons for Oil

The Commission report also noted that China continues to proliferate advanced weapons to many of its client states including North Korea, Pakistan, and Iran. In addition, China now appears to be willing to trade weapons for oil.

"China's growing energy needs, linked to its rapidly expanding economy, are creating economic and security concerns for the United States. China's energy security policies are driving it into bilateral arrangements that undermine multilateral efforts to stabilize oil supplies and prices, and in some cases may involve dangerous weapons transfers," stated the report.

"China has sought energy cooperation with countries of concern to the United States, including Iran and Sudan, which are inaccessible by U.S. and other western firms. Some analysts have voiced suspicions that China may have offered WMD-related transfers as a component of some of its energy deals," noted the Commission.

New Weapons


The Commission report also revealed that Russia has sold China a more advanced version of the deadly SUNBURN (3M83 Moskit) cruise missile. Nikolay Shcherbakov, adviser to the director general of the Altair Naval Scientific Research Institute of Electronic Engineering, is reported as saying that "we are supplying China with new-generation equipment. We have been allowed to supply MOSKIT supersonic antiship cruise missiles with twice the range - 240km instead of the existing 120."

The Commission also noted a growing concern that China would use nuclear weapons to attack and defeat U.S. forces in the event of a war over Taiwan.

"Recognizing the possible involvement of the U.S. military, the current scholarship on China's R & D finds that PRC strategists believe that a superior navy could be defeated through the disabling of its space-based systems, as for example, by exo-atmospheric detonation of a nuclear warhead to generate an electromagnetic pulse," stated the report.

In addition, the Commission noted that China is pursuing an advanced laser weapon for use against Taiwanese and U.S. forces.

"It has recently been reported that China has successfully developed a laser cannon with a range of more than one hundred kilometers and might have already deployed it in Fujian Province facing Taiwan."

Shooting War in 2005


The Commission's report painted a deadly and growing picture of the Chinese threat with a possible conflict only a year away.

"The China Affairs Department of the Democratic Progressive Party published a report on China's basic military capabilities in which it said that Beijing had developed a 'sudden strike' strategy to attack Taiwan. This story discussed a scenario in which an attack would consist of an initial seven-minute shock and strike missile barrage that would paralyze Taiwan's command system, followed by seventeen minutes in which Taiwan's air space will be invaded by fighter jets. Within twenty-four hours of the strike, 258,000 Chinese troops could be deployed in Taiwan. China's fast-growing military modernization and expansion is aimed at a possible war between 2005 and 2010, according to the report," stated the Commission report.

In early June the Pentagon released a Congressionally mandated report on Chinese military developments. The Pentagon report outlined the double-digit increases in Chinese defense spending and major weapons purchases from Russia.

China currently is third in total defense spending, behind the U.S. and Russia, with nearly $100 billion a year now budgeted for the PLA. The Pentagon report noted that the PLA double-digit increases are expected to continue through 2010.

According to the report, the Chinese build-up of ballistic missiles has changed the balance of power in the Pacific, threatening to start a war over Taiwan. China currently has an estimated 550 short-range missiles opposite Taiwan.

"China most likely will be able to cause significant damage to all of Taiwan's airfields and quickly degrade Taiwan's ground based air-defenses and associated command and control through a combination of SRBMs (short range ballistic missiles), land-attack cruise missiles, special operation forces and other assets," stated the Pentagon report. The Pentagon report noted that China is increasing its long-range missile capability and is expected to expand its inventory to 30 such missiles by the end of 2005. The Pentagon anticipates the Chinese long-range nuclear missile force will exceed 60 before the end of the decade.

Nuclear War


The Pentagon report also warned that Chinese military strategists are considering the use of nuclear weapons against U.S. and Taiwanese forces. According to the Pentagon, a nuclear weapon detonated at high altitude would create an "electromagnetic" shock wave that will disrupt U.S. communications and scramble sophisticated military computers. "PLA theorists who have become aware of these electromagnetic effects may have considered using a nuclear weapon as an unconventional attack option," stated the Pentagon report.

Chinese authorities have reacted explosively to the recent reports, especially over the U.S. commitment to Taiwan. Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao underscored the unstable nature of China's relationship by threatening to use military force to seize control of the tiny island nation.

According to the official PRC news Xinhua, China will never tolerate "Taiwan independence", neither will China allow anybody to split Taiwan from the motherland with any means.

"The Taiwan independence activities are the greatest threats to the peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait," stated Liu. The official PRC spokesman also asked the United States to stop selling advanced weapons to Taiwan under any pretenses and refrain from sending wrong signals to Taiwan.

(Source).
Dreamer128 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2004, 09:20 AM   #2
promethius9594
Drizzt Do'Urden
 

Join Date: April 13, 2004
Location: USA
Age: 42
Posts: 676
The Pentagon anticipates the Chinese long-range nuclear missile force will exceed 60 before the end of the decade.

we should nuke em now, before they could hit us back.

It has recently been reported that China has successfully developed a laser cannon with a range of more than one hundred kilometers and might have already deployed it in Fujian Province facing Taiwan

was it einstein who said "i have no idea what weapons world war III will be fought with, but world war IV will be fought with sticks and rocks"?
__________________
mages may seem cool, but if there was a multi player game you wouldnt see my theif/assasin until you were already too dead to cast a spell...
promethius9594 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2004, 09:30 AM   #3
MagiK
Guest
 

Posts: n/a

China has been threatening Taiwan again and the US is legally bound to defend them if China gets pushy....not gonna be a pretty site of they start to feel froggy and go after Taiwan.....Of course I commented long ago that China is a major threat...we will see how it plays out...kinda makes you wish a certain someone hadnt sold all that Missile Technology to them now doesnt it?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2004, 10:25 AM   #4
Dreamer128
Dracolisk
 

Join Date: March 21, 2001
Location: Europe
Age: 40
Posts: 6,136
Has the US officially recognised Taiwan as a nation? Because I know my government hasn't (not that it has stopped them from selling weapons to Taiwan, mind you).
Dreamer128 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2004, 10:44 AM   #5
wellard
Dracolisk
 

Join Date: November 1, 2002
Location: Australia ..... G\'day!
Posts: 6,123
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreamer128:
Has the US officially recognised Taiwan as a nation? Because I know my government hasn't (not that it has stopped them from selling weapons to Taiwan, mind you).
While I leave the first two posts well alone, I will run on this one... Are you Dreamer of the opinion that Taiwan is NOT an independent nation?

If Britain claimed Australia, (like Taiwan with its own government, borders and defence forces with free and fair elections) would you still call Australia British and not recognise Australia as independent? If the Netherlands somehow claimed the 'Dutch east Indies' as its rightful land and did not recognise that Indonesia is independent, would you agree with your government? What would it take for you to say Taiwan is independent? Most of the western world has been kissing china’s ass over this issue for long enough.

Taiwan is independent! And long may it stay so.
__________________


fossils - natures way of laughing at creationists for over 3 billion years
wellard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2004, 10:52 AM   #6
pritchke
Bastet - Egyptian Cat Goddess
 

Join Date: September 5, 2001
Location: Calgary, AB
Age: 50
Posts: 3,491
I am sorry but as long as Bush Jr. and his minions is in power the No. 1 threat to global security is the US itself and the No. 1 treat to the American economy is Bush himself. Economic warfare my bum!!! God knows which country he go after next. I am sure Cuba is first on his list of evil doers.


[ 06-25-2004, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: pritchke ]
pritchke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2004, 11:18 AM   #7
promethius9594
Drizzt Do'Urden
 

Join Date: April 13, 2004
Location: USA
Age: 42
Posts: 676
I am sure Cuba is first on his list of evil doers.

cuba doesnt represent a threat nor a priority country in the world view right now. when castro dies they are ripe for a democratic revolution anyway so its not going to be cuba.

also, you are sorely mistaken to believe that america is the number one threat to global security and its appalling that you would say so. al quada has nuclear weapons, china is planning to use nuclear weapons on the US if taiwan declares independance, and north korea is preparing nuclear weapons which could be used on south korea faster than any counter missile defense could be launched... and yet one country with no active plans to use nuclear weapons on anyone ranks highest in your book as a threat to global security? maybe you should go and live in the middle east for a time and learn a bit of how stable the US is by comparison.
__________________
mages may seem cool, but if there was a multi player game you wouldnt see my theif/assasin until you were already too dead to cast a spell...
promethius9594 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2004, 11:35 AM   #8
John D Harris
Ninja Storm Shadow
 

Join Date: March 27, 2001
Location: Northport,Alabama, USA
Age: 63
Posts: 3,577
Quote:
Originally posted by pritchke:
I am sorry but as long as Bush Jr. and his minions is in power the No. 1 threat to global security is the US itself and the No. 1 treat to the American economy is Bush himself. Economic warfare my bum!!! God knows which country he go after next. I am sure Cuba is first on his list of evil doers.
Commit that to memory, and recite it often, Though you may want to learn how to say it in Chinese for when the time arises.

I've noticed the economic destruction that President Bush's policies have brought upon the USA, the largest growth in GNP in nearly 20 years, 10 years past the economy of the 90's. Just out of idle couriousity what's the growth of Canada's GNP? the Unemployement rate?, the interest rates? the inflation rate? what was the percentage of job growth last quarter? the quarter before that? Of the new jobs created in Canada are nearly 60% of them in the service sector where the average pay is higher then the national average like in the USA? Are there more people employed then ever before(actual numbers of people)?
__________________
Crustiest of the OLD COOTS "Donating mirrors for years to help the Liberal/Socialist find their collective rear-ends, because both hands doesn't seem to be working.
Veitnam 61-65:KIA 1864
66:KIA 5008
67:KIA 9378
68:KIA 14594
69:KIA 9414
70:KIA 4221
71:KIA 1380
72:KIA 300

Afghanistan2001-2008 KIA 585
2009-2012 KIA 1465 and counting

Davros 1
Much abliged Massachusetts
John D Harris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2004, 11:38 AM   #9
pritchke
Bastet - Egyptian Cat Goddess
 

Join Date: September 5, 2001
Location: Calgary, AB
Age: 50
Posts: 3,491
Were did it say China would use nuclear weapons if Taiwan declares independence. If Taiwan declares independence than we (western world)should keep our noses out of the affair. Use diplomatic means of talking to China to minimize the damage. If Hawaii decides to separate from the US what will happen? I don't know but I would expect china to keep its nose out of the affair. If Quebec tries to separate from Canada I would expect the rest of the world to buzz off a let us deal with our own problem. The article shows the arrogance of people in the pentagon and white house right now and about 50% or more of Americans agree with me and that is my opinion and dam it I am in titled to it. I have nothing against Americans or the war on Terrorism and when Bush makes good decisions I acknowledge it, but he is still dangerous because he seems to prefer war over diplomacy.

Yes, I agree North Korea is somewhat of a threat and should be dealt with by diplomacy. China isn't a threat unless you want to make it one. Al quada and other terrorist are real threats because fanatics can't be reasoned with the only thing they will answer to is a bullet between the eyes.


[ 06-25-2004, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]
pritchke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2004, 11:45 AM   #10
pritchke
Bastet - Egyptian Cat Goddess
 

Join Date: September 5, 2001
Location: Calgary, AB
Age: 50
Posts: 3,491
Quote:
Originally posted by John D Harris:
I've noticed the economic destruction that President Bush's policies have brought upon the USA, the largest growth in GNP in nearly 20 years, 10 years past the economy of the 90's.
GNP is not a good way to measure the economy. WARS, diseases and disasters can increase the GNP. I would take a look at your spending and how far you are going in the red because Bush hit a home run in the red. This will affect future generations. I posted an article on on GNP while back. An increase in GNP is not always a good thing. Actually it may have been the GDP? Whatever, if you go so far in the red and believe everything is peachy you are in for a rude awakening.

Quote:
Originally posted by John D Harris:


I've noticed the economic destruction that President Bush's policies have brought upon the USA, the largest growth in GNP in nearly 20 years, 10 years past the economy of the 90's. Just out of idle couriousity what's the growth of Canada's GNP? the Unemployement rate?, the interest rates? the inflation rate? what was the percentage of job growth last quarter? the quarter before that? Of the new jobs created in Canada are nearly 60% of them in the service sector where the average pay is higher then the national average like in the USA? Are there more people employed then ever before(actual numbers of people)?
Not sure what any of this has to do with the current discussion. Sounds like a Paul Martin tactic to evade the issue and hes a liberal by the way.

[ 06-25-2004, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]
pritchke is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The new Pentagon papers InjaYew General Discussion 0 03-12-2004 07:17 AM
Somethings Going on at the Pentagon Ladyzekke General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005) 11 09-15-2001 09:58 PM
Pentagon from Space Ziroc General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005) 5 09-14-2001 03:47 AM
Latest Pentagon News Moridin General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005) 10 09-12-2001 08:22 AM
Third plane - the Pentagon Fljotsdale General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005) 2 09-11-2001 10:19 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2024 Ironworks Gaming & ©2024 The Great Escape Studios TM - All Rights Reserved