Elminster vs Gandalf vs Raistlin Majere

Cerek the Barbaric · 03-27-2002, 11:02 AM

There has been a lot of debate and discussion concerning spellcasters in recent threads, and these 3 gentlemen seem to be the popular consensus for the MOST powerful wizards around.

So...which one of these 3 do you think is the most powerful....

Elminster - He is the consort to Mystra, Mistress of Magic and is basically designed to be unbeatable in BG and the Forgotten Realms both.

Gandalf - Stood toe-to-toe with a Balrog and lived to tell about it. He also fought off the Nine Riders by himself (although the battle isn't seen by the hobbits or Aragorn). Finally, he swings a powerfully magicked sword in addition to his spellcasting. abilities.

Raistlin Majere - Defeated the goddess, Tiamet, on her home plane by himself. Any other questions?

Gandalf and Elminster never killed a diety...then again, they never tried to either.

For sheer power, I would probably have to go with Elminster.

Anybody that has played PnP knows that - if a DM says an NPC is unbeatable - then they are. Pure and simple. The party WILL lose if they ignore the DM's advice.

J'aran · 03-27-2002, 11:42 AM

I don't think Gandalf can safely be compared to the two D&D wizards. Magic and spellcasting - and as a result of that the power of spellcasters - is managed very different in the D&D multiverse as opposed to Middle Earth.

Gandalf is quite powerful compared to the mortals in Middle Earth, but him being a lesser 'deity' himself - he is a Maiar, as I believe Sauron is too, although the latter is more powerful - I don't think he could safely challenge a greater diety of that world.

And Elminster isn't specifically designed to be unbeatable either. In the BG games he is, but in the books he isn't. He is immensely powerful though, but not a lot more than Raistlin. Even Elminster would be hard-pressed if he would challenge a diety on it's home plane, and remember that he isn't the only Chosen of Mystra.

Just for the sake of argument, if Gandalf were a D&D character, both Elminster and Raistlin would easily be able to beat him.

Raistlin Majere · 03-27-2002, 12:07 PM

What book has Elmister in it? I'm a big fan of the books.

dizzy · 03-27-2002, 02:38 PM

however Gandalf is more or les imortal.so you have to take that into account. and the balrog
was the next strongest creature, second only to sauron.

dizzy · 03-27-2002, 02:41 PM

plus gandalf doesnt need a whole bunch of bat guano etc to cast spells plus he doesnt have to re learn used spells

khazadman · 03-27-2002, 08:00 PM

i have to go with gandalf he's one of the strongest of the maiar.he takes so long to beat sauron because he is not allowed to use his true powers.
in human form gandalf would probably lose to elminster.but in his true form he would spank the old gandalf wannabe.i have no idea who the other wizard is.

enigma · 03-27-2002, 08:09 PM

Raitlin defeats Tiamat? what book did that happen in? (could it be that I'm more behind in my reading than I thought I was?)

I knew that he tried to take out Takhisis, but Tiamat??

Come to think of it, is Tiamat even a goddess of Krynn? I don't remember reading about her.

Luvian · 03-27-2002, 10:09 PM

Well... Thanks a lot for spoiling half the story of lord of the rings.

As for who is stronger, between those 3, you cannot really say, because it depend on the whim of the writer. Both Elmisters and Raistlin have been made in different version, At first, Elminster was only a mage, then Ed Greenwood wrote the novel about his "childhood" when he was a fighter, thief, priest and then mage. So a new version of elminster was created for the game. Then Ed Greenwood wrote elminster as even more powerfull than that, so a new game version of emlinster came out.

So, he used to be a regular mage, maybe level 20 mage at first. Then they changed it to something like a level 2 fighter/level 5 thief/level 9 priest/level 30 mage. Now in the third edition he is even more powerfull than that.

Same thing for Raistlin, in the pen and paper game, there is NO WAY for a mortal to kill a god. A god can only be killed by one or more other gods of same or more power. But the guy who wrote the dragonlance novels decided it was possible, so Raistlin killed one. Same thing for that bard, "No Name" in the forgotten realm, that weakling bard killed Moander.

So basically, what I am saying is that we can't know wich one is the more powerfull, because the novels writer do not respect any rules, and change the version of their characters as soon as the whim take them. In my opinion, this is not very professional.

Luvian · 03-27-2002, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Raitlin defeats Tiamat? what book did that happen in? (could it be that I'm more behind in my reading than I thought I was?)

I knew that he tried to take out Takhisis, but Tiamat??

Come to think of it, is Tiamat even a goddess of Krynn? I don't remember reading about her.

Takhisis IS Tiamat.

Ryanamur · 03-27-2002, 11:12 PM

I go with Rand Al'Thor and Richard Rahl

. No, seriously, Gandalf the White (not the grey), could easily brush aside Elminster!

03-27-2002, 11:02 AM	#1
Cerek the Barbaric Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: October 29, 2001 Location: North Carolina Age: 62 Posts: 3,257	There has been a lot of debate and discussion concerning spellcasters in recent threads, and these 3 gentlemen seem to be the popular consensus for the MOST powerful wizards around. So...which one of these 3 do you think is the most powerful.... Elminster - He is the consort to Mystra, Mistress of Magic and is basically designed to be unbeatable in BG and the Forgotten Realms both. Gandalf - Stood toe-to-toe with a Balrog and lived to tell about it. He also fought off the Nine Riders by himself (although the battle isn't seen by the hobbits or Aragorn). Finally, he swings a powerfully magicked sword in addition to his spellcasting. abilities. Raistlin Majere - Defeated the goddess, Tiamet, on her home plane by himself. Any other questions? Gandalf and Elminster never killed a diety...then again, they never tried to either. For sheer power, I would probably have to go with Elminster. Anybody that has played PnP knows that - if a DM says an NPC is unbeatable - then they are. Pure and simple. The party WILL lose if they ignore the DM's advice. __________________ [img]\"http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/cerek/cerektsrsig.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /><br />Cerek the Calmth

03-27-2002, 12:07 PM	#3
Raistlin Majere Ra Join Date: March 26, 2002 Location: Finland Age: 37 Posts: 2,323	What book has Elmister in it? I'm a big fan of the books. __________________ If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst forth at once in the sky, that would be like the splendor of the Mighty One. "I am become death, the destroyer of worlds."

03-27-2002, 02:38 PM	#4
dizzy Mephistopheles Join Date: January 18, 2002 Location: Baumholder Germany Age: 40 Posts: 1,434	however Gandalf is more or les imortal.so you have to take that into account. and the balrog was the next strongest creature, second only to sauron. __________________ An Army of fun. <br /><br />\"The worst thing about being in Germany in the Army is having to wakeup everyday\" <img border=\"0\" title=\"\" alt=\"[Wink]\" src=\"wink.gif\" />

03-27-2002, 02:41 PM	#5
dizzy Mephistopheles Join Date: January 18, 2002 Location: Baumholder Germany Age: 40 Posts: 1,434	plus gandalf doesnt need a whole bunch of bat guano etc to cast spells plus he doesnt have to re learn used spells __________________ An Army of fun. <br /><br />\"The worst thing about being in Germany in the Army is having to wakeup everyday\" <img border=\"0\" title=\"\" alt=\"[Wink]\" src=\"wink.gif\" />

03-27-2002, 08:09 PM	#7
enigma The Magister Join Date: January 22, 2002 Location: Infinite Sea of Code Red, Canada every other weekend Posts: 119	Raitlin defeats Tiamat? what book did that happen in? (could it be that I'm more behind in my reading than I thought I was?) I knew that he tried to take out Takhisis, but Tiamat?? Come to think of it, is Tiamat even a goddess of Krynn? I don't remember reading about her. __________________ Exit lights....enter night....take my hand....off to never never land...

03-27-2002, 11:42 AM	#2
J'aran Mephistopheles Join Date: December 12, 2001 Location: Fryslân, The Netherlands Age: 46 Posts: 1,493	I don't think Gandalf can safely be compared to the two D&D wizards. Magic and spellcasting - and as a result of that the power of spellcasters - is managed very different in the D&D multiverse as opposed to Middle Earth. Gandalf is quite powerful compared to the mortals in Middle Earth, but him being a lesser 'deity' himself - he is a Maiar, as I believe Sauron is too, although the latter is more powerful - I don't think he could safely challenge a greater diety of that world. And Elminster isn't specifically designed to be unbeatable either. In the BG games he is, but in the books he isn't. He is immensely powerful though, but not a lot more than Raistlin. Even Elminster would be hard-pressed if he would challenge a diety on it's home plane, and remember that he isn't the only Chosen of Mystra. Just for the sake of argument, if Gandalf were a D&D character, both Elminster and Raistlin would easily be able to beat him.

03-27-2002, 08:00 PM	#6
khazadman User suspended until [Feb13] Join Date: December 6, 2001 Location: the south side of ol virginny Age: 64 Posts: 1,172	i have to go with gandalf he's one of the strongest of the maiar.he takes so long to beat sauron because he is not allowed to use his true powers. in human form gandalf would probably lose to elminster.but in his true form he would spank the old gandalf wannabe.i have no idea who the other wizard is.

03-27-2002, 10:09 PM	#8
Luvian Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 27, 2001 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Age: 44 Posts: 6,766	Well... Thanks a lot for spoiling half the story of lord of the rings. As for who is stronger, between those 3, you cannot really say, because it depend on the whim of the writer. Both Elmisters and Raistlin have been made in different version, At first, Elminster was only a mage, then Ed Greenwood wrote the novel about his "childhood" when he was a fighter, thief, priest and then mage. So a new version of elminster was created for the game. Then Ed Greenwood wrote elminster as even more powerfull than that, so a new game version of emlinster came out. So, he used to be a regular mage, maybe level 20 mage at first. Then they changed it to something like a level 2 fighter/level 5 thief/level 9 priest/level 30 mage. Now in the third edition he is even more powerfull than that. Same thing for Raistlin, in the pen and paper game, there is NO WAY for a mortal to kill a god. A god can only be killed by one or more other gods of same or more power. But the guy who wrote the dragonlance novels decided it was possible, so Raistlin killed one. Same thing for that bard, "No Name" in the forgotten realm, that weakling bard killed Moander. So basically, what I am saying is that we can't know wich one is the more powerfull, because the novels writer do not respect any rules, and change the version of their characters as soon as the whim take them. In my opinion, this is not very professional. __________________ Once upon a time in Canada...

03-27-2002, 11:12 PM	#10
Ryanamur Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: March 29, 2001 Location: Montréal, Canada Age: 50 Posts: 1,763	I go with Rand Al'Thor and Richard Rahl . No, seriously, Gandalf the White (not the grey), could easily brush aside Elminster! __________________ An idiot will only play Russian roulette with an automatic pistol! Thank God they only do it once! <img border=\"0\" title=\"\" alt=\"[Smile]\" src=\"smile.gif\" />

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