Rose Tint My World

[Lavindathar]

I thought I'd ask this here, as there are a lot of Americans reading this board, some far more patriotic than others. I've made a hash of writing this as im eating while writing before I go back to work, but I think you get the same general idea.

Anyway, I read something comparing the Americans vs The English. But it was an English sided view, and to be honest, I agree with everything that was wrote.

Now, the main question is -

Do Americans see themselves through Rose Tinted Glasses?

I won't go into ALL the detail, but I'll list a few examples of differences.

* The American people love George Bush. The rest of the world thinks he is a complete tool, yet you re-elected him. On a personal note, how did you guys do that? He's one of the worst world leaders to have ever graced the planet.

The difference, you Americans love him even though he's shit. We english, are trying desperately to get rid of our Prime Minister, because he is shit.

*The national anthem - when you Americans hear it, you stand, hands on hearts, and sing with full glory. Do you really believe America is the land of hope and glory? Cos no-body else on the planet does. We see it as a nation filled with crime and violence tbh. Do you believe America is where people go to find their fortune? Once again, nobody else seems too. And everyone that did, now knows they are mistaken.

On the English side of it, we hear the national anthem, we change the channel. We don't really care. It's not because we are not patriotic, we are. Its that 99% of the British public don't believe in the Queen. She is there for tourism revenue only.

*Wars - The Americans believe going to Afghanistan for war, was the right thing to do. The "war on terror". Do you really believe it was the right choice? All the casualties you have suffered, and what has been gained from it? Nothing really, Osama and his buddys are still about. yes it has made improvements, do you think this was worth the 1million + deaths it caused? And do you believe that your nation, America, has the right to make this choice.

The English people hate the fact we went there, and our government knows it.

Anyway, not a slating of you guys, just those were 3 of the things out of about 200 the article mentioned.

So are you Americans really as rose tinted as it comes across to us English? And if so, why? To make you feel better, as the "No1 Nation" in the world? Cos lets face it, general concensus is that most countries hate Americas arrogance and attitude, yet the Americans believe you are all powerful.

Just trying to see if any of you view America like the rest of the world does.

[Bungleau]

Actually, I'd say you've got the rose-tinting on, Lavindathar.

You've made a number of blanket statements, many of which ring false.

"All" Americans do not love George W Bush. In fact, Bush-bashing seems to be a cottage industry for many people. At the time he was re-elected, he was viewed as a better alternative by a majority of people. He has dismal approval ratings, indicating that now, more people are unhappy with him.

"You" Americans do not stand, hand on heart, and sing to the national anthem. Well, many do, but many simply stand, and if I think about the last sporting event I went to, continue to drink their (adult) beverages, look around to try to find the flag, and carry on conversations. I remember it being much, much more stirring when I was a kid, but that could have been either youthful exuberance or a sign of the times. Or both.

I confess that when I've been in other countries, the flash of home memories that come when I hear the national anthem do bring a stirring to my soul. Is that because of the song, or because of what it brings to mind from where I am in the world? I *suspect* that anyone far from home who hears something like their national anthem, regardless of whether they strongly feel about it or not, will be moved on some level. And I could be wrong.

"The" Americans believe that war in Afghanistan was the right thing to do. Well, many folks continue to argue about this, and many make the distinction between supporting our troops and supporting the decision to have them where they are. Many people support the troops; far fewer support the decisions.

"Most" countries hate America's arrogance and attitude? I presume you've polled and studied a majority of the countries in the world to be able to back it up, right? Otherwise, it's about as valid as me saying that most people view (pick a UK Football Club here) is a waste of time, money, and talent. Certainly some do, and certainly some don't. Doesn't make either side right... or wrong.

I admit that far fewer Americans get their news information from sources outside the US. As a result, their news information does tend to be biased. But does that mean or imply that they do not care or believe what the rest of the world thinks? I think not, in most ways. It's no different than making blanket stereotypical statements about anyone else - English, French, Israeli, Arab, or German. Some people will prove it right, and some will prove it wrong. To paint them all with the same brush because of one or two individuals is wrong, no matter which one or two you pick.

[Lavindathar]

Bung, at the very start of my post, i said "it's biased from an English point of view".

I was trying to say I agreed with the author, on the points of how America comes across. Generalising, of course it is. But, I was wanting someone like yourself, to post and tell me its wrong.

The way the English media views America, may be totally different to how it actually is. Same with the rest of the world, which tbh, was the point of the post. Are americans really as stereotypical as they are portrayed...

[Bungleau]

Well, it's hard to tell just where the original author's words end and yours begin, Lav. I did read your note that it was biased from an English point of view, and I tried to rise above nitpicking on whether or not that English bias was appropriate.

I tried to address the comments being made, which painted everything with a very broad stereotypical brush. I don't believe there's a group that you can make those kinds of statements about where they can be both broad and accurate at the same time, unless you eliminate all specifics. People as a whole (there's broad!) are too individual to fall into a neat global definition (and there's the accurate, hopefully).

To answer your question simply, no. Americans are not as stereotypical as they are portrayed. Some favor the President, some don't. Some favor the war (pick your location), some don't. Some live up to the American stereotype, some don't.

That was how I was trying to respond... to say that while some people do subscribe to those stereotypical points of view, it's not true for everyone. In fact, those people may be a tiny minority.

That doesn't mean that there aren't people who make that stereotype seem real. There often are, just as there are for *any* stereotype. The essence of many "-isms", however, is the assumption that since one person proves out the stereotype, all people must then prove out the stereotype.

Years ago, I was in Paris (France, not Texas ) with a colleague, and at a table near us at lunch, there was an American woman going on and on about how things in Paris were different than what she was used to back home. Her laundry list of strange things was long, and the bottom line for me was simple: Ma'am, you're no longer *at* home... you're someplace else. It's different... enjoy the difference.

I've spent time on several continents in more than a handful of countries, and hopefully, I've done a bit to dispel the American stereotype. That doesn't mean I've always been successful, but I do my best to be a person first, and an American second.

I'd be interested in reading that whole article, if you can provide a link. I may be able to give you better feedback on it.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

...Can I be English, too?

[dplax]

Originally Posted by Bungleau "Most" countries hate America's arrogance and attitude? I presume you've polled and studied a majority of the countries in the world to be able to back it up, right? Otherwise, it's about as valid as me saying that most people view (pick a UK Football Club here) is a waste of time, money, and talent. Certainly some do, and certainly some don't. Doesn't make either side right... or wrong.

A quick Google found this from 2006:

http://www.nola.com/frontpage/t-p/in...4645160150.xml

[machinehead]

Didn't you get the answers you were looking for from this previous thread?
http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/...ad.php?t=77604

[Lavindathar]

Well thank God it didn't turn into a flame fest

And machinehead, i forgot that topic ever existed. The thing I read was a small piece in some supplement to a newspaper, so I cant provide a link. It was just curiousity.

Was just thinking out loud I guess, but just made me think, that our view of Americans is shown how they love their country no matter what, where as we really hate our country for every little thing wrong :p