A heartwarming debate on college

[SecretMaster]

Okay so here is the thing. Currently I am a senior in high school. And as a requirement to graduate we have to do some fancy research paper on a topic of your choice. Well, I thought it would be fitting to do mine on the unnecessary pressure created by the education environment in order to get into college. Essentially I am saying that there is a fundemental flaw in the upbringing of children today. As a teenager and one going through this entire college process, I can certainly vouch to say that something is wrong and this simply isn't working.

Currently I am doing the pointless task of 200 notecards. I need 50 more and its 3:16 in the morning. I'm probably going to be pulling an all nighter seeing as I would wake up in three hours for school and I'm still not finished. Regardless, I just wanted to see what the IW opinion is on all of this.

There is so much frustration and utter disgust with the way we are raised and educated. And quite frankly I almost feel shortchanged. However this paper will be a combination of my personal thoughts backed up by actual data, which I guess is what a paper is. But I thought it might make for an interesting topic of discussion. I'm not familiar with education outside of the U.S., but I'd imagine it is more or less the same thing. I hope it isn't, but it seems to be one of those universal things that we have today.

I'll make a more coherent, cohesive and concise (gotta love the c's) when I'm actually in a functioning state. In the meantime, I'd like to hear some of IW's thoughts. What did they think of their own education leading up to college. What about college itself? Can you say you are satisfied with the choices you made or are you content in life?

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

I firmly believe that the American education system is the reason we haven't seen any creative prodigies floating around in a long time. Now the next Picasso gets filled up with Ritalin for doodling in class, and the next Einstein is put in remedial classes for being so flippin' bored. Students generally aren't encouraged to think creatively until college, and by then it's too late for most of them.

[JrKASperov]

Actually, here in Holland, I didn't notice the 'need' to go to college very much. You're very much free to do whatever you want. You're almost guaranteed to find something.

The important difference with the US is, ofcourse, your social economic system. You can't afford to not go to college in the US because you'll end up trying to pay off debts the rest of your life because you don't make any money. At least that's how I get it. The obvious solution to this, ofcourse, is stopping with those crazy workethics and making the financial jump from not-college work to college-work go away.

Don't get me started on the horrors of suburbia. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Harkoliar]

reality of life, the world has become so much more competitive today than years ago. It has become a standard to take a degree course or something similar after High school to be appealing in the job prospects.

if your really not interested, make or break by becoming an enterprenour OR for a guy with no ambitions, he can be happy being a taxi driver or farmer.

even becoming a farmer has a degree [img]tongue.gif[/img] nowadays

a friend i know in real life just finished HS, and he, being ADD, he doesnt want to pursue college or university. That was nearly 3-4 years ago, he still hasnt found a permanent job. It could be just him, or it must mean something

[ElfBane]

Education In America--How to Improve the Relationship between Parent and Student.

Chapter 1:
For parents: Find what your child likes,,encourage it.
For students: Find something you like,,pursue it.

The End

[Thoran]

Competitive pressures are ratchetting up, and a significant part of this is due to globalization.

You're not just competing for jobs with Joe down the street, you're competing with Liang in China, Jayesh in India, Hiro in Japan, Thomas in Britan, etc...

And a lot of these countries have a cultures that emphasizes education as a path to accomplishment (or escape from poverty) instead of treating it like a chore.

Soon you'll get to college and start competing for grades against the best and brightest of Chinese students. These are students who's lives REVOLVE around study on campus instead of around social activities. Only then will you realize what you're up against.

It was not uncommon in my Fields and Waves class back in college (many years ago) for a test average to be under 40... but even so there would be several Chinese students in the 90's.

The US needs to get more serious about education AS A CULTURE. I'm not talking about throwing more money at it (we already throw too much) or stressing our kids out with horror stories of life working at McDonalds or Walmart (although that can be fun [img]tongue.gif[/img] ). I'm talking about a pervasive culture of learning at home AND school that makes learning the natural activity it should be.

And contrary to the blatherings of Hillary Clinton... it DOES NOT take a villiage. It takes dedicated parents.

[Larry_OHF]

Where I come from, experience and dedication to the job pays just as well as education, but still I am in school at my wife's request.

When I was 18, I got a job in a textiles plant and within 1 year I was the manager, being responsible for keeping the production moving so as to not bottleneck the entire process. I was called the youngest and brightest dyer in the state, under my dad who was the best-paid dyer in NC.
Then I went to Mexico on a mission for the church.
When I got back, I got a job being in charge of the workers on an assembly line and was able to hire or fire whoever I wanted to. Due to a competitor for employees getting preference because of family ties, I quit that job. I quickly found an entry-level position as a mairoom attendant with possibility to advance to whatever position I wanted to after 2 years. When the two years was up, I could have chosen to be trained in computers to be on the helpdesk team, or the networking/firewall area, or various other places. I was also asked to join the Claims department. Everyone in the company liked me, when I decided to go to school for a degree in Spanish, the president of the company tried to talk me out of it and offered me more money to stay. I could not because I was expected of my wife to go to college for that degree.

What I am saying here is that I personally believe that a good personality, good work ethics, and ability to work one's way up the workplace ladder is just as good as Education. on Donald Trump's Apprentice, we see Street Smarts doing just as well in the tasks (sometimes better) as the ones with three degrees from the most prestigious schools. But no matter if this is true...education is still talked about as the only real choice.

BTW...I did not have a good enough SAT score to have ever qualified to get into college, but because I am now an adult student, all I had to do was pass 1 math course to prove that I was ready to work for what I wanted and I was in. I am now a Senior and will graduate in May. This semester completes all my required courses, and I have two electives left. I'll be getting a job in January while taking those remaining classes online.

And I have no idea what type of job I want.

[Ilander]

Fact #1 about American education:

Everyone is above average.

#2

If you don't have a degree, they'll ship your job off to Mexico or China or Cambodia, or...

#3

Even after college, it can still be hard to find a job.

Education 'round my neck of the woods is treated like the lucky man's escape from the poverty of Appalachian Kentucky...so, I treat it seriously, but lemme tell you, UK (and other universities) have the same environment high schools have, in some ways.

You only have to learn if you want to learn...challenging yourself has punitive results...and you're still going to be surrounded by idiots.

The biggest difference is now you're poor.

[Bungleau]

College (or Uni) and education are two different things.

I stopped college ten years ago, when I got a Master's degree.

I stopped my education then, too.

I started my education again about five years ago, and I've learned a hell of a lot in those past five years.

IMHO, the purpose of college is to prove that you're trainable to an employer. Without it, they're gambling that you can be trained for what they need. Let's face it... how many colleges offer degrees in Accounts Payable processing... but every business needs someone to do it.

The only way out of needing to prove that you're trainable is to be an entrepreneur... but then you *have* to be trainable (as in getting your own education) or else you'll either fail or be loading fries into a wire basket for the rest of your life.

And I don't mean moving up into management there, either. I mean loading fries.

[Stonewarrior]

I think that employers take "degrees" to seriously at times. I spent six years in college and was about 3 classes from a double major in English and History. What would that have gotten me in the workplace? Nothing unless I wanted to teach. My problem was that I could not learn a language to save my life and to get a Liberal Arts degree one must have 4 semesters of a foreign language. I have been passed over for promotions twice at my current job in large part because I do not have the piece of paper. I have been here 9 years and am considered one of the top employees in my area...but not having that piece of paper has held me back. Instead the positions have gone to less qualified individuals. I guess what I am saying is that having the degree can be misleading and that employers should also take into account the work experience.

I also think there are a lot of problems with our educational system. No child left behind? What a joke. Whether it be parents or the system something needs to change. My wife and I have a son who just turned 7 years old that we are homeschooling. He has been doing multiplication for a year and is better on a computer than many people I work with. Additionally, his vocabulary is larger children twice his age and his ability to fully incorporate words (and their meanings) into his vocabulary is truly amazing. I would like to say it is because he has good genes, but I suspect it has more to do with how we have raised him thus far. My wife is unable to work which allows her to be home to educate him and we have a very good support system which helps with his education. It was stated that parents need to be more involved and I would agree. However, I think that in too many cases the parents are not able to devote the time needed as it is so expensive to even live modestly anymore. Gone are the days when one parent can work to adequately support his / her family. With my wife not able to work we barely get by...but in the end my son is getting a much better education than he could ever hope for in a public or even private school. That in itself makes our struggles worth it.