I'm sort of in a state of shock....

Fljotsdale · 10-26-2001, 01:09 PM

I've just been listening to the radio and a reporter was talking to Afghani citizens in Northern Afghan. He was trying to find out what they thought of the bombing of their country and the reasons for it, and whether they had heard US broadcasts on a new radio station. (None of them had).
Anyway. He asked if they knew what had happened in the US to provoke the bombing. Most didn't know, but knew it was to do with bin Laden. Two people seemed to have some idea:
One said bin Laden 'broke a castle and killed many people'.
The other said he had 'killed many people and their animals'.

I knew they did not have anything like a Western culture, but I thought they had SOME access to the media! This was not a village in the back of beyond but a sizeable town! But they are seeing us with castles and livestock - like the middle ages! Like themselves.
Guys - these people shouldn't be subjected to the might of the Western world!
Their leaders might know what is going on, and Bin Laden certainly does, but the ordinary Afghanis are poor peasants still living in middle-ages conditions for the most part, with absolutely no comprehension of what is going on or the reasons for it.
Oh people - I am in a state of shock here.
The pictures you see on tv don't tell you half as much about Afghan as those few words spoken by those two men.

------------------

Here be Dragons!
Proud to be Dubbed Queen of the Illuminati by Diogenes.

"If I say something to you and it can be taken two ways, and one of those ways upsets you...I meant the other one."

skywalker · 10-26-2001, 01:17 PM

It is a sad thing, indeed, Fljotsdale! A cannot fathom this.

Mark

Yorick · 10-26-2001, 01:19 PM

They're just like hostages on a plane Teresa. Affected one way or another. The war is not against them, though they are affected. It grieves me to hear that, but what is the alternative? As we have said exhaustively, the Taliban have been requested since 1993 at least, to hand over Osama Bin Laden and they will not.

More than one castle will break if Bin Laden and his training camps are not neutered.

------------------

Yorick · 10-26-2001, 01:21 PM

Bear in mind the propaganda on both sides. This is just two voices you have heard.

------------------

Yorick · 10-26-2001, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yorick:
Bear in mind the propaganda on both sides. This is just two voices you have heard.

People from the same nation have spouted hatred and bile.

------------------

Cloudbringer · 10-26-2001, 01:24 PM

F, not to sound contrary, because I know darn well the quality of life there is poor and not anywhere near what we are used to, but had you considered it may be a translation thing?

If the person interpreting for them chose the words, you cannot be sure what the original connotation is. I learned this lesson very well as a language student of many years. If it was the actual person's words, keep in mind he may have learned his English from a very old source. Texts are hard to come by in that part of the world.. heck, even in the USSR in the '80's I had to deal with 18th/19th century English texts in our translation class at the premier eduational institution (Moscow State University) because they just didn't have modern American texts!

I certainly do not wish to make light of your reaction, but I wanted to clarify that translation can be complicated. Now if you tell me you understood the original, I'll slink off and blush alot!

Cloudy
ps: Yorick you're quoting yourself, dear! LOL
------------------

Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
CloudDragon of the OHF
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."

[This message has been edited by Cloudbringer (edited 10-26-2001).]

Yorick · 10-26-2001, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cloudbringer:
F, not to sound contrary, because I know darn well the quality of life there is poor and not anywhere near what we are used to, but had you considered it may be a translation thing?

If the person interpreting chose the words, you cannot be sure what the original connotation is. I learned this lesson very well as a language student of many years. If it was the actual person's words, keep in mind he may have learned his English from a very old source. Texts are hard to come by in that part of the world.. heck, even in the USSR in the '80's I had to deal with 18th/19th century English texts in our translation class at the premier eduational institution (Moscow State University) because they just didn't have modern American texts!

I certainly do not wish to make light of your reaction, but I wanted to clarify that translation can be complicated. Now if you tell me you understood the original, I'll slink off and blush alot!

Cloudy

Great point. I hadn't considered this. Without a word how do you convey something in spoken language? Good call.

------------------

skywalker · 10-26-2001, 01:32 PM

I believe the story rings true. Course maybe I'm very gullible!

Mark

Yorick · 10-26-2001, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cloudbringer:

Yorick you're quoting yourself, dear! LOL

I know. Better than editing as it was an additional point on the same thing. Actually maybe I should have just editted

------------------

Cloudbringer · 10-26-2001, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by skywalker:
I believe the story rings true. Course maybe I'm very gullible!

Mark

Mark, I don't believe it's a question of true/false. I think it's more a question of language and culture. If I do not know what a skyscraper is, I cannot give you a word for it. If I must translate it I may use the first word that comes anywhere close, in this case "castle".

I don't mean to say that the Afghani people are all fully aware of world politics and news, but that they may be more aware than that one incident and translation indicate. Not having sophisticated plumbing and grocery chains does NOT mean that they are backwards intellectually and I think it would be a bad thing to assume that from a short interpreted interview .

Cloudy

------------------

Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
CloudDragon of the OHF
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."

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10-26-2001, 01:09 PM	#1
Fljotsdale Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom Join Date: March 12, 2001 Location: Birmingham, West Mid\'s, England Age: 88 Posts: 2,859	I've just been listening to the radio and a reporter was talking to Afghani citizens in Northern Afghan. He was trying to find out what they thought of the bombing of their country and the reasons for it, and whether they had heard US broadcasts on a new radio station. (None of them had). Anyway. He asked if they knew what had happened in the US to provoke the bombing. Most didn't know, but knew it was to do with bin Laden. Two people seemed to have some idea: One said bin Laden 'broke a castle and killed many people'. The other said he had 'killed many people and their animals'. I knew they did not have anything like a Western culture, but I thought they had SOME access to the media! This was not a village in the back of beyond but a sizeable town! But they are seeing us with castles and livestock - like the middle ages! Like themselves. Guys - these people shouldn't be subjected to the might of the Western world! Their leaders might know what is going on, and Bin Laden certainly does, but the ordinary Afghanis are poor peasants still living in middle-ages conditions for the most part, with absolutely no comprehension of what is going on or the reasons for it. Oh people - I am in a state of shock here. The pictures you see on tv don't tell you half as much about Afghan as those few words spoken by those two men. ------------------ Here be Dragons! Proud to be Dubbed Queen of the Illuminati by Diogenes. "If I say something to you and it can be taken two ways, and one of those ways upsets you...I meant the other one."

10-26-2001, 01:17 PM	#2
skywalker Banned User Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: VT, USA Age: 64 Posts: 3,097	It is a sad thing, indeed, Fljotsdale! A cannot fathom this. Mark

10-26-2001, 01:19 PM	#3
Yorick Very Mad Bird Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam) Age: 53 Posts: 9,246	They're just like hostages on a plane Teresa. Affected one way or another. The war is not against them, though they are affected. It grieves me to hear that, but what is the alternative? As we have said exhaustively, the Taliban have been requested since 1993 at least, to hand over Osama Bin Laden and they will not. More than one castle will break if Bin Laden and his training camps are not neutered. ------------------

10-26-2001, 01:21 PM	#4
Yorick Very Mad Bird Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam) Age: 53 Posts: 9,246	Bear in mind the propaganda on both sides. This is just two voices you have heard. ------------------

10-26-2001, 01:24 PM	#6
Cloudbringer Ironworks Moderator Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Upstate NY USA Posts: 19,737	F, not to sound contrary, because I know darn well the quality of life there is poor and not anywhere near what we are used to, but had you considered it may be a translation thing? If the person interpreting for them chose the words, you cannot be sure what the original connotation is. I learned this lesson very well as a language student of many years. If it was the actual person's words, keep in mind he may have learned his English from a very old source. Texts are hard to come by in that part of the world.. heck, even in the USSR in the '80's I had to deal with 18th/19th century English texts in our translation class at the premier eduational institution (Moscow State University) because they just didn't have modern American texts! I certainly do not wish to make light of your reaction, but I wanted to clarify that translation can be complicated. Now if you tell me you understood the original, I'll slink off and blush alot! Cloudy ps: Yorick you're quoting yourself, dear! LOL ------------------ Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan CloudDragon of the OHF Storm-Queen Raven's Cloud StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever "To sleep, perchance to dream..." [This message has been edited by Cloudbringer (edited 10-26-2001).]

10-26-2001, 01:32 PM	#8
skywalker Banned User Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: VT, USA Age: 64 Posts: 3,097	I believe the story rings true. Course maybe I'm very gullible! Mark

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