Notify the EU :)

For those of you who think I only bash euro things, heres stupidiy of a grand sort.


Metro zeros in on grades that crush kids

GEORGE WALKER IV / STAFF
A good book means smiling faces for 5-year-old students Jaumeesha Campbell, left, and Lauren Paige Carter as they work with reading teacher Alice Myles at Alex Green Elementary. Myles agrees with proposed grading guidelines for elementary students that would ensure youngsters won't get a zero if they flub an assignment.


By DIANE LONG
Staff Writer

No more zeroes.

Assigning a grade no lower than 50 for Metro's youngest students is the most startling proposal in a new set of grading guidelines up for final discussion next month.

But eliminating the goose eggs is an idea that makes sense, Chief Instructional Officer Sandy Johnson said.

''To me, the most critical piece is that these are 6- to 9-year-old children,'' Johnson said. ''When children are in kindergarten through fourth grade, our goal is to teach them the skills.

''I think we have to be really careful about grading, that we don't do things that really devastate children and don't give an accurate reflection of their work.''

The guidelines, which could go into effect this spring or next fall, flesh out the bare framework in the district's current elementary grading policy. A committee of principals, reading specialists and district officials worked to develop the suggestions.

Under the proposals, teachers would be encouraged to give a minimum number of assignments to average for the final grade. Letter grades would be assigned on a 10-point scale, with 90-100 equal to an A and grades 59 or lower rating an F.

Homework grades would rarely be used in computing the final mark.

''We didn't want homework to become a major component of the grade (because) children might not have support at home or help at home,'' said Martha Hayes, Metro's executive director for grades 4-12. ''Sometimes it's appropriate to grade homework, especially in terms of long-term projects. But we don't want that to be the major part of a child's grade.''

The proposal under closest scrutiny is the 50 rule, one of the reasons that the Metropolitan Nashville Education Association asked for a 30-day comment period when the guidelines were first announced early this month.

''That is the thing that is offensive to the logical side of grading,'' said Harry McMackin, MNEA president.

''If a kid does zero, why does he get a 50?''

Johnson uses this example: Suppose a child gets two zeros at the start of a grading period. But the next eight grades are 80, a B. The average is 64, a low D that doesn't really reflect the quality of work.

I had to put in a comment here.....It doesnt represent the overall quality of the work, but DOES teach that actions have repurcussions and that they may be long lasting. Kids need to learn this as well

''When you're doing your average, in order to get a more accurate representation of the student's ability, use that 50 as your low point,'' Johnson said. ''As children get older, you have to get into some different consequences. But we keep saying these children are 6 to 9 years old.''

Reading teacher Alice Myles, who served on the committee, said she and her fellow teachers at Alex Green Elementary were comfortable with the 50 rule.

''If you're doing a skill and that child makes a 20 or a zero, the discussion was to make sure the child had a fighting chance to succeed,'' said Myles, who is recognized as a master teacher by the National Board for Professional Teaching Standards.

''And 50 would be a good recommended cutoff point. We talked about it in our faculty meeting. They were very enthusiastic and receptive about the policy.''

A student who flubs an entire assignment is sending a red-light warning that the teacher needs to reteach and retest, she added. ''If a child does make a zero on a skill, then you want to go back and see what happened and make sure the child does understand,'' she said. ''We want to make sure every child has the possibility of getting the most out of the learning experience.''

Parent Duane Dominy agrees that Metro needs the elementary guidelines so grades aren't ''skewed from one school to another.'' But he's mulling over the 50 rule. ''I understand the rationale, but I don't know if I agree with it,'' he said. ''I have been in a position where I have made a zero and worked my rear end off to keep from getting an F, and that's life.''

In his mind, student effort makes a big difference.

''If they do the work and turn it in, I think that would be fine to give them a 50,'' Dominy said. ''If they don't do the work, I don't think they should give a 50 because that's giving them something for nothing. And I don't agree with that.''

Still, a collection of 50s will eventually mean a failing grade, Hayes said. ''If we truly have a child that we have tried and tried and tried to get work from, and the child is simply not doing the assignments, those 50s will add up,'' she said. ''An F is an F. That will still be the grade that you get.''

Other teachers are coming around to the idea, McMackin said.

''A 50 is an F. To go for that 0, it's like you want to give them an F-minus,'' he said. ''When it was first expressed to teachers … it was a great big alarm. I've discovered it's not really that big a deal. We always have to keep in mind that we want these kids to make progress.''


Yeah lets keep from letting the kids deal with reality and the results of their failures...its important for them to feel good even if they aren't doing well.


[ 02-25-2003, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by MagiK: "If they do the work and turn it in, I think that would be fine to give them a 50," Dominy said. "If they don't do the work, I don't think they should give a 50 because that's giving them something for nothing. And I don't agree with that."

Actually, MagiK, though I'm not one to coddle youngsters in education either, I think this part of the article makes the point. Sometimes a youngster will misunderstand an assignment. And I do agree that an actual effort by the student that results in a "0" indicates a failing by the teacher, not the student. One "0" in a semester creates a nearly-insurmountable problem on the end average. Doesn't seem so crazy to me. Having to prescribe that teachers undertake these obvious common-sense approaches seems crazy.

But, here's what the grade system will unfortunately likely teach:
1. As with welfare, if you're going to fail you may as well do it in a big way because you have a net keeping you from going very low. Don't bother putting 40% effort into life when 0% effort will get you the same rewards.
2. You can get something more than half right and still be considered a failure. (Which is a lesson already there anyway.)
3. If you are a college and you are reviewing a student from this school district, you should be aware that they get a "grade boost" other places don't, so you should consider their grades worth less that comparable grades from other districts.

[realbinky]

It also dis-associates teachers' knowledge of the kids. I once did not do an assignment in a class when I was 11 or 12. I was in an advanced class, and the teacher gave an research assignment due the next day. I refused to do it, based on the amount of time being too short. So the next day, I didn't hand it in, and got a zero. This teacher gives out a semi-report card 1/2 way through the term to let parents know how the kids are doing. Not an overall grade, but a grade for each of some list of assignments. I had that 0 on there and my parents flipped. BUT, at the term end, I got an A (somewhere in the 90s) in that class. Why? The teacher knew I knew what he taught, we had a generally good relationship, his job was to teach, mine to learn and I did. He knew that 0 was there, but also knew it wasn't important. He KNEW I wouldn't learn that I could just skip all my work and that I could pass, and I didn't. I simply disagreed with one assignment and actively decided to not do it, but I DID learn his subject. If a kid tries and barely makes it because he just has trouble and another kid COULD but doesn't and the grades are similar, the teacher *should* KNOW this and weight the grades accordingly. Effort counts. Sure I was older than 6-9, but it still wouldn't have scarred me for life if I was that age.

[antryg]

I have only failed one class in my life. It was chemistry in High School. The very first test was only on equations done using a slide rule. I did try but at that point, couldn't figure out to use the slide rule correctly. I failed the test so badly (this test was weighted so heavily that it had a greater value than the semester final) that there was no numeric way for me to pass the grading period, semester, or year in chemistry. Guess what, I wasn't allowed to transfer out of the class even though it was only 3 weeks into the school year and the school admin. realized that I had already flunked the class for the year. No extra credit work was allowed on my part either. This did not enhance the learning experience for me.

The result of this was a wonderful hour to do my homework in other classes, read for pleasure, and my favorite, take tests in crayon. My favorite test was the one where I made the highest grade in class even after the teacher had taken 10 points off for taking it with crayons. I used different colors for different questions. My tests were very colorful.

[Davros]

Good points TL, and love the story of the test in crayon by Antryg - takes me back to an "optional test" I once had to try and improve my score in 1st year physics at University. I was sitting on the cusp of a HD with one poor assignment grade dragging me down. I sat the test at 8am after going out with my mates to the casino till 4am (I was dragged there - honest ). I had to get over 85% to improve my mark (it was sitting at 84), and one look at the test showed me that it just wasn't going to happen. I spent the mandatory "must sit the exam for at least 30 mins" period drawing caricatures on the paper, writing an apology to the marker for wasting their time, and relating the story of my casino winnings and shocking headache. That was the one and only time I ever got a 0 on a test [img]smile.gif[/img] .

One question to my dearest M - do you intend to title all your posts on international stupidity with the same title that you used in the last two (ie Notify the EU)? Just my thought that if I was to start posting stupid things with a "Notify the Bush Administration" title I would think that I were being a mite rude. Maybe it is just me?

Good points TL but the teachers already have ways to "ammend" a students grade if they think it is justified, they do not need someone telling them they can't give the actual grade the kid earned. The only way to score a complete zero is to not do the work at all. Now there may be extenuating circumstnaces why the kid missed an assignment, but in real life the teacher is usually free to do all kinds of things to give the kid a second chance at the asignment....now we just get a grade welfare state like you mention....bad bad bad precident...in my opinion.

[Davros]

Hmmm - doesn't seem to be an answer to my question - or should I take silence as agreement?

[ 02-26-2003, 03:41 AM: Message edited by: Davros ]

[Borvik]

I don't really want to bother anyone here with my opinion about the EU. Ok - maybe I want to a littlebit... There are comissions that are occupied with the serious duty of standardization of shopping carts and toilet paper (I'm mentioning 2 of the important ones...)

As for the grade thing... If the result of a test is worth a zero, then it's a zero! If that is because someone refused to do the test, or because the pupil had absolutely no idea what the heck has been going on, I don't care. In the first case, he/she knew, what he/she had to face and in the second case, most probably it reflects the amount of work that has been put into learning (ok, maybe that's not the only reason, but I said 'most probably').
If it's been the fault of the teacher (I don't like to hear that very much, because the first excuse I get to hear is exactly this one... when I'm questioning a bit more in detail, the truth is more 'complex' ), then there will be a lot more pupils with a desastrous result. In this case some other measures have to be taken!!!

1)Repeat the test with a better preparation (that means, the teacher has recognized the problem)
2) Use some other sources for your preparation (that means, the teacher refuses to recognize the problem)
3) Remove the teacher (that means the school director recognized the problem)

But according to my experience it's mostly the responsibility of the pupil, and not to 'reward' a certain 'achievement' with the proper grade, won't help anyway - it doesn't help even if it's the teachers fault - so it's absolutely useles in my opinion

[Indemaijinj]

I have always been a proponent that a failed assignment should always give an above zero score (but still too little to pass) as long as there is an actual attempt on doing it.

The zero should strictly be reserved for assignments that haven't been made, missed exams (without a good reason) and assignments where it is clear that there is no actual attempt on doing them right.

Reason: We should not learn our children futility.

[RevRuby]

i think ilike the idea about homework not being so big in grading. i hated homework, and only when the teacher could inspire to like the subject of the home did i do it. infact there were some american lit assignments i didn't do because i didn;t like the book or story. that was my choice, and i can't fault my teacher for doing what she's been told, but in geography the teacher was a [edit] and the only home work was big projects that required a person to ignore all other work to do. hating geography i didn;t mind failing. they made me take world cultures ins ummer school...no home work and i had 106% at mid-term, and 98.6% at the end of it. i like world cultures