Niggard and Holocaust

[Timber Loftis]

I was just on a board where some folks were accusing other folks of using these words of being prejudice (at worst) and insensitive (at best).

I think just because WWII contained a holocaust does not mean the word should no longer be allowed in usage. It still has a meaning applicable to other situations than the particular German/Jewish one that usually gets a caital "H". See here:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=holocaust

Same with the words niggard and niggardly. They have meanings, too. See:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=niggard
and
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=niggardly
And, GRR Martin uses the term in his books, if you want a more readily-identified reference.

Are these words offensive?

The guy who was ranting about them on the other site made mention that he was also opposed to retiring the jersey no. of great athletes. I think that's pretty applicable.

[ 01-31-2003, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Melusine]

We had a discussion about the word niggardly earlier, maybe you'd be interested in reading it [img]smile.gif[/img]

http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/cg...0;t=010726;p=1

[Attalus]

Darn it, Mel, you beat me to it. [img]smile.gif[/img] I was, however, thinking about the word "holocaust" since that great mind Nelson Mandela said that we were going to "commit a holocaust" in Iraq. Well, I never would have suspected him of good taste, since I have seen his ex-wife, but it does mean a thorough destruction involving extensive loss of life especially through fire, so perhaps I wrong him. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 01-31-2003, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: Attalus ]

[Timber Loftis]

Thank you Melusine for completely obviating my post. Really, though, looks like this topic has already been well-debated.

My favorite was the comment about the "Penal Codes." [img]graemlins/laugh2.gif[/img]

[harleyquinn]

How odd? I guess some people just aren't educated and don't understand what things really mean and react out of ignorance (I'm not saying they're stupid, I'm just saying they are uneducated on words true meanings), kinda like the people who protested the name of the latest LOTR movie because they felt the name "The Two Tower" was too reminicent (sp?) of the twin towers. Apparently they never realized that the book was named LONG before the towers were ever built.
I'm Jewish, my great-grandparents came to this country to escape the pogroms in Romania. We lost distant cousins in the Holocaust, but I don't find that word offensive. I don't understand why one would, it's not a racial slur, it's the term used to describe what was done to the Jews, Polish, and other groups. I could understand someone saying they found the idea of a holocaust offensive, but the word? Just doesn't make sense to me.

[Melusine]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Thank you Melusine for completely obviating my post. Really, though, looks like this topic has already been well-debated. My favorite was the comment about the "Penal Codes." [img]graemlins/laugh2.gif[/img]

Well, the Holocaust/holocaust wasn't covered, and there are a lot of new members who weren't around for the first debate. Just thought it was an interesting thread. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Harleyquinn, that petition against naming the movie The Two Towers is a well-known Internet hoax.

Glad to see someone remembers my threads
I think the H word should be well debated too, since I agree that it stillhas meaning beyond the capitalized version.

[Attalus]

Hmm, my reseach reveals that holocaust is from the Greek, and dates in English all the way back to the 13th Century, and it originally meant a burnt sacrifice.

[Talthyr Malkaviel]

Let's see, if I remember my etymology, niggard comes from the word "nigon," merely with a suffix substitution.
In turn, nigon derives from "nig" with an added suffix of unknown origin, and the word "nig" aforementioned is thought to be probably a word of scandinavian origin- not related to the word "nig" as an abbreviation of the racial slur.

It honestly confuses me how people, including ones in the debate Mel posted, say that use of niggardly in mixed company should be avoided.

Should we avoid using words such as Niggerhead (meaning a tangled mass of the roots and decayed remains of sedges projecting from a swamp) merely because it sounds like an offensive word?

Holocaust? The word holocaust came before the event- why should people stop using a legitimate word that has a different meaning.
Also, as it has been said, it is usually capitalised when referring to the tragic events of the Second World war era.

[Attalus]

I am getting two different vibes from th PC people. One says that you should not use the word, except to refer to the events in WWII, the second says that we should not use it at all, since it denotes a sense of solidarity with Israel. ("Please do not use the word holocaust, as the Israelis have been using it to justify the perpetuation of their own atrocities. Say, rather, the concentration camps, since that also includes the homosexuals and Romany people." - forgot where I saw that one, but it has remained in my memory.)