Ironworks Mantras - suggestions please!

[Memnoch]

I am trying to come up with a list of Ironworks Mantras to use as guidelines when debating/discussing issues, particularly controversial ones. These are NOT meant to replace our Terms of Service, which govern fundamental requirements for members here, but rather to complement them. I would like to see the Ironworks Mantras as being more like a set of bullet points that can help all of us in being able to conduct discussions/debates in a positive and mutually respectful manner, without resorting to personal flames/arguments/insults etc.

Here's what I've come up with so far. You may already be familiar with some of these - to me, this is what makes Ironworks what we are! [img]graemlins/superdude.gif[/img] To me, this is what defines our spirit and community.

IRONWORKS MANTRAS

• I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. This is the cornerstone around which the concept of freedom of speech is built, as long as it is done with respect for others. - Memnoch
• Debating at Ironworks is not about winning or losing, rather it's about expressing a point of view and listening to another person expressing theirs. There is no shame in agreeing to disagree when the argument starts to go nowhere. - Memnoch
• Don't take things personally. Life's too short to get upset about another person's point of view. - Memnoch
• If you can't handle people disagreeing with you, then don't get into a debate - you will not enjoy it and it will cause everyone problems. - Memnoch
• A controversial viewpoint expressed politely, tactfully and respectfully will have a better chance of being accepted than a mainstream viewpoint expressed rudely and disrespectfully. - Memnoch
• Remember that two of the most difficult things to do on the internet are: 1) admit that you can't change the other person's point of view; and 2) accept that failing to change the other person's point of view does NOT mean they are better than you. - Memnoch
• Trying to imagine oneself in other people's shoes often helps a lot to understand their point of view. - Moiraine
• A man/woman convinced against his/her will is of the same opinion, still. - Galadria
• Oh, Great spirit, let me not judge a person until I have walked a mile in his moccasins. - Galadria
• Unless you prove otherwise by your actions you will be treated as a mature person. Please use your time here in a manner that demonstrates respect for other members. - Mouse
• No argument can be won or lost. There are quite often many answers which can be deemed correct. - LennonCook
• Can't we all just get along? - Smoothie
• Have the serenity to accept what you can not change, the courage to change that which you can, and the wisdom to know the difference. - Memnoch, with input from Smoothie
• There is nothing to be learned from enforced uniformity or vituperative argument. But the courteous exchange of differing ideas both enlightens and invigorates. - Fable
• what you give is what you get. - adam warlock
• When quoting a previous phrase, remember to read what context it was written in. This would probably save a lot of redundant misunderstandings or clarifications. - Mistral4543
• The one who feeds the flames is the one who will get burnt. - LennonCook
• If disagreeing with someones post remember to read all of it. Don't just reply after reading the first point you disagree with. - Barry the Sprout
• It is not a shame to be wrong. - Kaz
• Don't know it all! - Ronn Bman
• Be willing to learn from someone you're sure is wrong. - Ronn Bman
• Avoid "shooting" facts from the hip. Don't post lists of dates or events without knowledge of those events and without the ability to discuss how they are important to the debate. - Ronn Bman
• When in doubt about a person's intent, give them the benefit of the doubt. Rarely does someone actively seek to insult another. - Sazerac
• Nothing is ever lost by walking away from a fight or a heated issue. You only lose when you lose control of yourself. - Sazerac
• No one can keep up a facade forever. Sooner or later, their true colors will show. Let them hang themselves, and do not be so quick to provide the noose. - Sazerac
• Treat others as you would have them treat your child: do not curse at, belittle, disrespect, or otherwise be mean-spirited. You are free to disagree, but you are not free to railroad someone else into agreeing with you.- Garnet Falcondance
• Behind every name, there's a person. - Tancred
• And behind every name, is an email address and IP, which can BOTH be banned. - Ziroc
• In a debate, you can always attack an idea, but never the person behind the idea. - Ryanamur
• In a debate there is always a winner and a looser. Ironically you are usually both. - Ryanamur
• Don't sweat the small stuff. And it's ALL small stuff. - DragonMage
• Do not be upset to find that people have ideas other than your own. Expect it, and then respect it. - Pangur Ban

Disagreements, arguments, passion, etc are a fact of life in serious discussion - we expect that at times people's emotions will get the better of them. People will occasionally lose their tempers and say things they shouldn't in the heat of the moment. This is ok - but only if you can extend your hand to that other person and shake his/her hand afterwards, EVEN IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH EACH OHTER. This is what respect is all about - it's not conditional on what opinion someone holds. It makes our jobs so much easier when we can participate, rather than mediate, in discussions.

I'd love to hear what you guys think, and I'd love for you all to add a Mantra or two of your own. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Edit: Updated the list of mantras.

[ 01-23-2003, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

[Moiraine]

Great thread MemnieGenie ! [img]smile.gif[/img]

I would like to add this : Trying to imagine oneself in other people's shoes often helps a lot to understand their point of view. Ah, I don't have the skill to phrase that into a proper Mantra. Can you help ? [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: Moiraine ]

[Galadria1]

The things that I always try to remember is "A man/woman convinced against his/her will is of the same opinion, still." and "Oh, Great spirit, let me not judge a person until I have walked a mile in his moccasins." Also, "Opinions are like (expletive deleted)s: everybody's got one, and a lot of them stink."

[Sir Exxon]

Looks great, Memny! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
Keep up the good work!


see ya!

[Mouse]

A couple of thoughts....

Unless you prove otherwise by your actions you will be treated as a mature person. Please use your time here in a manner that demonstrates respect for other members.

and

How to deal with instances of perceived rule-breaking.

1) Post a polite message on the thread pointing out the possible breach. NO FLAMING!!!
2) If the behaviour persists, PM or e-mail one of the Moderators (not Ziroc )
3) Let one the Mods deal with it and respect their decision.

[ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: Mouse ]

[Memnoch]

Four replies? [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img]

Come on! Surely you guys can do better than this...

[andrewas]

how about:

"I know your wrong, but do i know if i'm right?"

[LennonCook]

Heres one: "No argument can be won or lost. There are quite often many answers which can be deemed correct"

But, theyre actually quite good Memnoch!! You did better than some English teachers i know of could!!.

[Smoothie]

How about:
- Can't we all just get along!
- Learn to accept what you can not change.
- I love my job, I love my job, I hate my job (oh sorry that is my personal mantra so I don't go postal on my boss, lol)

[fable]

My favorite: There is nothing to be learned from enforced uniformity or vituperative argument. But the courteous exchange of differing ideas both enlightens and invigorates.