Pillaging vs Taking Souveniers

Why is it that when the Iraqi citizens take items from government offices, abandoned hotels, etc, it is called "pillaging" but when soldiers take items out of Saddam's palace it is called "taking souveniers".

Will the Armed Forces let these men return to the United States with Saddam's ashtrays and pillows?

It was a habit frowned on at the end of WWII wasn't it?
At least that's what my grandfather said when he told us the story of how he stole a key that had once belonged to Napoleon Bonaparte and how he ended up with it when he came back from Europe.

Did Grandpa lie? Do the Armed Forces approve of bringing home souveniers taken in the spoils of war?

(For you Europeans looking for that key...it was lost in a house fire in SW Ohio in 1971 when it was in my mother's possession. Sorry! [img]smile.gif[/img] )

[Sir Taliesin]

The only thing they didn't want us sending home during DS was weapons. Other than that, you could send home captured uniforms, gas masks, books etc... We had to delouse the uniforms though.

[Wutang]

If you saw band of brothers on HBO, in WWII some paratrooper from the 101st airborne took home the guest register from the premiere exclusive Gasthaus in berteschgarten (sp?) in the Eagles Nest. I'd like to know where it is today as it would be worth millions considering it had all the signatures of high ranking Nazis, dignitaries etc who ever visited Hitler up there.

While others took home silverware etc.

It was probably frowned upon as US policy but when these vets stumbled across more and more of the concentration camps, that probably changed a lot of attitudes.

I just hope the US servicemen are smart enough not to bring anything home. I can just see Al Jazeera having a field day with that on the news.

[ 04-09-2003, 12:42 AM: Message edited by: Wutang ]

I had no idea it was permitted, guys, thank you!

Personally I see it as theft...they aren't paying for it and it does belong to the Iraqi people as far as I am concerned. If they are there to liberate them from Saddam shouldn't the Iraqis get everything or am I being sappy towards them? Talking about items from the palace, not uniforms, military gear, etc.

I never saw Band of Brothers...maybe part of one episode but I've never been a fan of war movies, series, etc.

The guy behind the desk at FOX is now announcing reports from "Kelly Palace" LOL...I'd like to see how he gets that home!

[ 04-09-2003, 12:51 AM: Message edited by: Lil Lil ]

[Night Stalker]

As a policy, no, pillaging is NOT permitted. Personal military gear tends to be overlooked, other things just don't necessarily get noticed.

Oh, and you should take a look at Band of Brothers. A very personal, human look at WWII through the eyes of E 2/505th PIR 101st ABN. The series is mostly based on the memoirs of Richard Winter, a key officer of that unit. The book is We Stand Alone Together, a play on the division's motto "Currahee" (SP?) - Chipwhaa for "We stand together" IIRC.

I will warn you though - it's very graphic and poinant.

[ 04-09-2003, 01:15 AM: Message edited by: Night Stalker ]

Thank you, Night Stalker. [img]smile.gif[/img] That would be "taking souveniers"...it's only pillaging when the Iraqi citizens take things.

I have been seriously thinking about giving Band of Brother another look...I've been on a futile search all week to locate a web site dedicated to the service of three brothers, two of whom are in Iraq right now but since seeing the piece on the news and forgetting the family's name, what state they live in, I am blank and drawing blanks in my search as well but I have seen links galore to sites dedicated to both the series and the book. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Azred]

My grandfather's brother (doesn't that make him my great uncle, or something like that?) has some personal effects, a diary, and a sword he got when a Japanese officer left them behind. Although these items were fascinating to see and the diary remains untranslated, I later thought that what he did was not terribly nice. At the least he should have the diary translated as there may be living descendants of that officer and I am certain they would place a high sentimental value on it.
In short, whether you call it "souvenirs" or "pillaging" it is wrong. Leave all of Hussein's collectibles behind, auction them, and give the proceeds to humanitarian Iraqi reconstruction. Or turn them into a museum so the Iraqi don't forget what they had to suffer.

[Djinn Raffo]

Originally posted by Azred: My grandfather's brother (doesn't that make him my great uncle, or something like that?) has some personal effects, a diary, and a sword he got when a Japanese officer left them behind. Although these items were fascinating to see and the diary remains untranslated, I later thought that what he did was not terribly nice. At the least he should have the diary translated as there may be living descendants of that officer and I am certain they would place a high sentimental value on it. In short, whether you call it "souvenirs" or "pillaging" it is wrong. Leave all of Hussein's collectibles behind, auction them, and give the proceeds to humanitarian Iraqi reconstruction. Or turn them into a museum so the Iraqi don't forget what they had to suffer.

you should accept the legacy of having that diary translated Azred and try to find if the man had any relatives.. maybe..

That would be really cool

I'd love to find out that he has descendents that it could be returned it to. I've had many Japenese friends and their family's personal legacies. esp in the form of stories either written or told are considered valuable. If there is any nation on this planet who can appreciate personal honor, it is the Japanese (imo). You would be someone's personal hero. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Djinn Raffo]

offtopic: The hard part is getting it translated. Once you did that im sure their are plenty of sites where you would be able to track down more info about the man if you could find in the diary things like what unit he served with, what division etc. lots of records on that sort of thing.