What is your position and Why

Ryanamur · 10-22-2001, 11:41 AM

Very simple, in this tread, you simply state your position and why you hold your position with regards to the 9-11 attacks and subsequent development.

NO DISCUSSION WHAT SO EVER ABOUT OTHERS POSITIONS.

Just state where you stand so that others will be better able to understand where you're coming from in other treads and hopefully, prevent future personnal attacks in the discussions to come.

EDIT: as some of you are probably wondering what this is for, I'll give it to you simple: I started this tread so that everyone on this board could realize that even though we might have different ideas as to how to deal with the ennemy, we've all identified our ennemy as being Bin Ladden and his associates! Noone on this board sides with the ennemy if you doubt me, answer the questions yourself and read the answer of others. I trully wish that even the members we've lost would post here so all can see what everybody's position really is...

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Your race (should people from the other side of the world come and visit, I want them to see that our problems are with the terrorists and not with them), where you're from, your age, your education, your native language, your religious beliefs and your political affiliation?

I'm a caucasian male from Canada. I'm 27 years old, I have a B.A. Honours with Major in International relations, a minor in History and a minor in Political Science. My first language is French, English is my second. I'm an atheist but some consider me agnostic. My political affiliation: I'm dead center. I old equal views from the Left wing and from the Right wing.

What do you think about the 9-11 attacks?

The attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were attrocious and a disgrace to mankind

Do you think that the attack were a reaction to US (or Western Civilization) policies over the years

Yes, I do think so. The involvement of Western Civilization in the Middle East and Africa as been detrimental to the national interests of those countries for some years now. Even though we provide them with supplies and monies, we are badly labled for letting the situation get this bad and for only paying attention to problems that we perceive like troublesome (ex. Iraq's invasion of Kuwait and the support for Israel).

Do you think that the US "had it coming"?

If you mean had it coming that those attack were warranted: no, I don't. However, I feel that yes they had it coming because of their rightfully self-proclaim title of "leader of our civilization". The are essentially the Biggest target to hit both symbolicly and physicly

Do you believe that a state should base is policies on moralities or the protection of the national interest?

In a utopic world, morality. However, given the true nature of the human race, this is impossible. One will always strive to dominate and if you let your guards down, you will be dominated. So in essense, one must base is foreign policies on the concept of the protection of his own interests... however detrimental it might turn out to be for others

Do you believe that Bin Ladden should be brought to trial for his crime?

No, this would only be percieve has big America enforcing it's will around the world. This would only help boost the support for Al-Queda in the future. It would be detrimental to our interest to do so.

What do you think should be done about Bin Ladden, his associates or any other terrorists?

Terrorists are a clear and present danger to our society and to the world. They should be executed on sight. Those include pranxters who terrorize for fun.

In the case of Bin Ladden, send in special operation group to assassinate him. Once he's dead, you don't even brag about it. You don't publicize it, not at home nor abroad. You let it go.

Do you believe that all Muslims are terrorists and that only Muslims are terrorists?

Of course not for both statements. The majority of the Muslims around the world believe in the true basis of their religion: peace and peacefull behavior. Are all terrorists Muslims is also equaly false: every race as terrorists in it's ranks. All that needs to be done is to inflict terror by means of physical or mental force.

Do you believe that the Talibans or any other government that harbor terrorists should be remove?

Yes and no. I don't believe that it's up to us to remove the governements. It's up to the locals to do so. We should help them but not do it ourself.

Do you believe that bombing of Afghanistan or any other country who support terrorists will help in getting rid of terrorists

Yes, so long as NO colateral damage is inflicted. Once you started to inflict colateral damage, you actually help increase the support for the terrorists and their governement. That, is increasingly more detrimental to our interests than having rogue governments in place. Since it's impossible to not inflict any colateral damage, I do believe that bombing of foreign countries is detrimental to our interests and shouldn't be done.

What do you think about the coalition dropping food?

Good idea but very poorly orchestrated and executed. If you're going to drop 37,500 food boxes per day to help feed over 2,000,000 refugies you might as well just not do it at all.

How do you think Western Civilization should deal with this problem?

Internally, we must boost our police forces and give them the mandate and the tools to effectively conduct preamptive terrorists related arrests. We may have to let go some of our basic privacy rights but I believe that it's in the interests of everyone to do so.

Internationally: we must hunt and kill terrorrists and remove the governments that support them. The prefered methods should be special ops regardless of the cost. Ironically, a few body bags on our side is better than a few body bags on their side. I say this because I believe that the more civilians we kill, the more civilians they will kill too. In the long run, we must help the 3rd world understand that we are not the Devil. We must help them in a way that respect their principles as well as ours.

What do you think about the current Anthrax scare?

I'm not convince that it's Bin Ladden's doing. The attacks are too small in nature, the effeciency of the attacks is debatable, the attacks cannot be used as a massive symbol of mass destruction to boost his ranks like the previous attacks (WTC, Pentagon, Embassies, USS Coles...)and, the final reason why I do not believe it could be Bin Ladden, is that it would be stupid to expose a network for such an inefficient attack (in comparision with others).

I'm not ruling out the possibility that these Anthrax attack could be locally based. What I mean by locally is that national terrorist groups could be taken advantage of the situation to help destabilize the world even more. Plus, with all the attention focussed on Bin Ladden, they might be able to get away with it.

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I'm the Wanderer without a clan... I bring justice without favorism. Though you may not agree with it, my judgement is final... and inconsequential

[This message has been edited by Ryanamur (edited 10-22-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Ryanamur (edited 10-22-2001).]

Memnoch · 10-22-2001, 12:11 PM

This is an excellent idea, Ryanamur. Kudos to you for being so considerate. Maybe this is how we should communicate our thoughts with each other until we can learn to treat other people's opinions with respect.

Let's see if we can all exhibit enough self-control to answer the questions rather than answering each other.

Before people start complaining about how the questions are worded

why don't we all give it a go and treat this in the spirit in which it was posted.

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Your race (should people from the other side of the world come and visit, I want them to see that our problems are with the terrorists and not with them), where you're from, your age, your education, your native language, your religious beliefs and your political affiliation?

Spanish-Filipino-Chinese male, American and Australian citizen, grew up in US, now living in Sydney. Age 28, business degree, marketing major, Roman Catholic, speak Spanish, Filipino and English, centre leaning left.

What do you think about the 9-11 attacks?

The worst of crimes - mass murder on a grand scale.

Do you think that the attack were a reaction to US (or Western Civilization) policies over the years

I believe that perceived injustices inflicted by Western (NOT just US) nations may have contributed to the overall feelings of hatred etc which motivated this attack. This does NOT in any way imply that the US deserved to be attacked or that the attack was justified.

Do you think that the US "had it coming"?

NO.

Do you believe that a state should base is policies on moralities or the protection of the national interest?

On both.

Do you believe that Bin Ladden should be brought to trial for his crime?

Yes.

What do you think should be done about Bin Ladden, his associates or any other terrorists?

Brought to justice and tried in a court of law.

Do you believe that all Muslims are terrorists and that only Muslims are terrorists?

No. Terrorism exists everywhere in the world as long as you have people willing to use violence to influence world events when it is NOT done in self-defence.

Do you believe that the Talibans or any other government that harbor terrorists should be remove?

Yes.

Do you believe that bombing of Afghanistan or any other country who support terrorists will help in getting rid of terrorists

If it destroys terrorist infrastructure and minimizes civilian casualties. I had a cousin who almost became "collateral damage" in the Middle East during the Gulf War, so I don't use the term "collateral damage" easily.

What do you think about the coalition dropping food?

Political act IMO. In practice better distribution mechanisms could have been found to deliver this, such as using aid agencies who have core competencies in aid distribution.

How do you think Western Civilization should deal with this problem?

Short term - find the perpetrators and bring them to justice.

Long term - look at the causal reasons as to why such hatreds are being manifested and make an informed decision as to whether or not such attitudes are worth changing and if so how to approach changing these attitudes (education, understanding, etc).

What do you think about the current Anthrax scare?

I think it's related to the 9-11 attacks in some way, possibly al-Queda but more likely some organization affiliated with al-Queda. It's certainly succeeding in causing mass panic and anxiety in the US.

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[This message has been edited by Memnoch (edited 10-22-2001).]

10-22-2001, 12:58 PM

Your race (should people from the other side of the world come and visit, I want them to see that our problems are with the terrorists and not with them), where you're from, your age, your education, your native language, your religious beliefs and your political affiliation?

I'm a mixed-race American female, 39 years old with enough education to do what I want...that includes a history in operating a family business, some college education, a history of management, as well as financial and structural evaluations of businesses I have worked for. I speak English, practice Christianity that is mixed with basic Jewish rules for moral values and good health. I have no defined political affiliations (I do vote), I'll go either way if it is the best thing for everyone (IMO lol).

What do you think about the 9-11 attacks?

Seeing as how the world was warned that further and more effecient attacks against the World Trade Center were to come, the only thing that surprised me was that innocent lives on passenger jets were used as ammo.

Do you think that the attack were a reaction to US (or Western Civilization) policies over the years

Policies? I dunno about that but one has to realize that the attacks were not against the U.S. alone. They were against the world and the world was hit in its financial epicenter. When means of finance are destroyed, a country (or in this case, countries) can eventually be brought down. We ought to be thankful that the attack did not go completely as planned.

Do you think that the US "had it coming"?

No. This is not "The U.S. vs The Rest of The World" Its Money vs No Money.
One Pack of Religious Extremists' View vs Everyone Else's
Riches does not make one powerful, yet power can be bought.
Think about that one.

Do you believe that a state should base is policies on moralities or the protection of the national interest?

I think if you are going to protect national interest, you would also have to protect the moralities of the individuals who finance you. (hint hint...there's that money thing again)

Do you believe that Bin Ladden should be brought to trial for his crime?

I think the Al Queda should be brought to trial and I do believe in capital punishment. Kill the bastards and save some money.

What do you think should be done about Bin Ladden, his associates or any other terrorists?

Read my above response.

Do you believe that all Muslims are terrorists and that only Muslims are terrorists?

That would be pretty narow-minded! Of course not. Terrorists come in all races and from all religious backgrounds. Your next-door-neighbor could be one.

Do you believe that the Talibans or any other government that harbor terrorists should be remove?

Yes. Any government that harbors terrorists, be it the Taliban or The U.S. or Britain, should be dismantled.

Do you believe that bombing of Afghanistan or any other country who support terrorists will help in getting rid of terrorists

If you destroy their means of training and attack, you hinder their progress. Bomb away.

What do you think about the coalition dropping food?

Even a little help, even if it can't be enough is something. After all, who else will put themselves in the position to be a leader of civilizations when no one else will lift a finger to help?

How do you think Western Civilization should deal with this problem?

I think if countries closer to the problems got involved, the U.S. would take a lot less flack for being the bad guy in all this.

What do you think about the current Anthrax scare?

With the way the media played up bio-terrorism in the beginning and their repeated announcements of how to infect large numbers of people with anthrax and smallpox without ever being caught, it does not surprise me at all.
Do you know where the only two contained smallpox viruses in the world are located? I do and I learned it by watching the news. Think I'd be tactless enough to type it out here? Sorry!

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"A book is a mirror: if an ass peers into it, you can't expect an apostle to look out"~G. C. Lichtenberg

Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!

[This message has been edited by Moni (edited 10-22-2001).]

John D Harris · 10-22-2001, 10:08 PM

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Your race (should people from the other side of the world come and visit, I want them to see that our problems are with the terrorists and not with them), where you're from, your age, your education, your native language, your religious beliefs and your political affiliation?

I'm a "Mutt", as Bill Murray said in "Stripes" my ancestors were kicked out of every decent counrty in the world. 40 year old Man, attending UCFS (University of Common Freecking Sense) planing to remain professional student. Native language Southern Red Neck, Christian, Conservative I have to look to my Left to see Ronald Reagan and Rush Lambuagh.

What do you think about the 9-11 attacks?

They were acts of War

Do you think that the attack were a reaction to US (or Western Civilization) policies over the years

Yes, in the minds of the attackers

Do you think that the US "had it coming"?

No

Do you believe that a state should base is policies on moralities or the protection of the national interest?

National interest, Who's moralities are we going to use? The Moralities of one nation are not the moralities of another.

Do you believe that Bin Ladden should be brought to trial for his crime?

No

What do you think should be done about Bin Ladden, his associates or any other terrorists?

The ones responsible for the attack on 11 Sept., 2001 should be hunted down and killed, quitely and without fanfare, no martyrs they are here then they are gone.

Do you believe that all Muslims are terrorists and that only Muslims are terrorists?

No

Do you believe that the Talibans or any other government that harbor terrorists should be remove?

Yes

Do you believe that bombing of Afghanistan or any other country who support terrorists will help in getting rid of terrorists

Yes, it is necessary to weaken and punish the Taliban making it easier for Special Forces to get in and kill the leaders and foot soldiers of the terrorist groups.

What do you think about the coalition dropping food?

A little is better than nothing

How do you think Western Civilization should deal with this problem?

Defend itself, when it must attack do so with ferocity,and give our enemies cause to think if they realy wish to continue the fight. After and only after they decide they no longer wish to continue the fight do you extend the olive branch.

What do you think about the current Anthrax scare?

Terrorist induced to scare the American public, look who they attacked the Media and Congress two groups insured to scream the sky is falling.

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Crustiest of the OLD COOTS
Airline ticket to Afghanistan $800
High powered rifle with scope $1000
Hotel room with roof access $100
A clean Head shot on that sack of Horse Manure Usuma Bin Laden PRICELESS!

250 · 10-23-2001, 12:26 AM

Your race (should people from the other side of the world come and visit, I want them to see that our problems are with the terrorists and not with them), where you're from, your age, your education, your native language, your religious beliefs and your political affiliation?

I am a Chinese, currently studying at USA, Washington University in St.Louis. I am 19. I am sort of between a non-believer and a christian. I believe a lot of what christian has to say, but I don't do a lot stuff that a christian does, so I cannot really consider myself one.

What do you think about the 9-11 attacks?

Disgusting, sick, while at the same time, it awoke something great in people

Do you think that the attack were a reaction to US (or Western Civilization) policies over the years

Yes

Do you think that the US "had it coming"?

Yes

Do you believe that a state should base is policies on moralities or the protection of the national interest?

Balance

Do you believe that Bin Ladden should be brought to trial for his crime?

No, execute him at where he is caught

What do you think should be done about Bin Ladden, his associates or any other terrorists?

same with John D'Harris

Do you believe that all Muslims are terrorists and that only Muslims are terrorists?

Definitely NO

Do you believe that the Talibans or any other government that harbor terrorists should be remove?

Yes, and do it NOW

Do you believe that bombing of Afghanistan or any other country who support terrorists will help in getting rid of terrorists

Yes, for no better purpose than moral boast. You can minimize lose of lives by targeting not populated areas, you know?

What do you think about the coalition dropping food?

We need more actions on this

How do you think Western Civilization should deal with this problem?

Treat the problem before it gets out of hand. The problem should been seen by "long term" and "short term". For the later one, western civilization needs to remove whatever current terroism organization there is, for the former, create understanding between east and west, give more financial support, be less aggressive on foreign policy.

What do you think about the current Anthrax scare?

People have to live on

[/B]

10-23-2001, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ryanamur:

Your race (should people from the other side of the world come and visit, I want them to see that our problems are with the terrorists and not with them), where you're from, your age, your education, your native language, your religious beliefs and your political affiliation?

American 1/2 unknown 1/4 german 1/4 greek genetic history. 28 years old and I'm a high school dropout. I speak english and slang. I have a spiritual religon. I would vote Libertarian or for who ever will end the drug war.

What do you think about the 9-11 attacks?

Unconditionally Tragic. The pictures! my words cannot compare.....

Do you think that the attack were a reaction to US (or Western Civilization) policies over the years

To a degree. I had yet to hear a good policy decision on the middle east since the current Bush came to office as U.S. president. Until today when America, via Colin Powell so unassumingly condemned recent Isreali Agression. I cant really blame the current Bushs policies, but the previous Bush had alot to do with it. The terrorists hate for the U.S. grew to a fervor years ago during and after the Gulf war.

Do you think that the US "had it coming"?

Deserved it? NO!
Could have seen it coming? Yes.

Do you believe that a state should base is policies on moralities or the protection of the national interest?

An issue to be addressed on a "policy by policy" basis.

Do you believe that Bin Ladden should be brought to trial for his crime?

It is the civilized thing to do and consistant with the ideals that are concerned with how we deal with transgressors, American style.

What do you think should be done about Bin Ladden, his associates or any other terrorists?

Whatever they have coming to them.

Do you believe that all Muslims are terrorists and that only Muslims are terrorists?

I wont say all muslims are anything. I believe some if not most muslims are non-violent. but, There's bad apples in any bunch.

Do you believe that the Talibans or any other government that harbor terrorists should be remove?

Not at the cost of one more human life.

Do you believe that bombing of Afghanistan or any other country who support terrorists will help in getting rid of terrorists

No. Our actions are a perfect rallying point for our extremists adversaries to pull the moderate players toward an anti-west viewpoint out of fear and/or terror. We may get rid of terrorists, but we wont get rid of terrorism until we quit playing by their rules.

What do you think about the coalition dropping food?

Give a malnourished person a bread crumb while shooting a gun all around him, occasionally grazing some flesh.

Military action. Why make so many suffer just to get a few. Thats what the terrorist do, cause suffering.

How do you think Western Civilization should deal with this problem?

With compassion, respect and civility. In America, We should be vigilante and keep our ideals of justice intact.

What do you think about the current Anthrax scare?

Fear.

[This message has been edited by G'kar (edited 10-23-2001).]

10-23-2001, 07:46 AM

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Your race (should people from the other side of the world come and visit, I want them to see that our problems are with the terrorists and not with them), where you're from, your age, your education, your native language, your religious beliefs and your political affiliation?

American of Sottish descent with Native American. 38. BAs in Geography and Anthropology (PhD from School of Hard Knocks), current small business owner and homeschooler. American English, smidgen of Italian & Spanish (enough to get by). Non-Christian, non-Jewish, non-Muslim (Unitarian by affiliation). Best way to describe political affiliation--chaotic good.

What do you think about the 9-11 attacks?

Mind-numbing, heart-wrenching sorrow and determination that it will never happen again.

Do you think that the attack were a reaction to US (or Western Civilization) policies over the years

Yes, a snowball effect.

Do you think that the US "had it coming"?

NO ONE deserves to have such an act perpetrated upon them. But we should have *seen* it coming.

Do you believe that a state should base is policies on moralities or the protection of the national interest?

Whose moralities? That of the few and powerful or those of the many and mundane? And whose 'national interests' (those in power or the everyday joes?) Ideally a balance of both.

Do you believe that Bin Ladden should be brought to trial for his crime?

No. It would only focus on him more closely. (If it can be done quietly and without fanfare, then maybe)

What do you think should be done about Bin Ladden, his associates or any other terrorists?

Bin Laden, execution, quick and without mercy or hesitaiton. Terrorists in general--far too broad a field for a singular answer.

Do you believe that all Muslims are terrorists and that only Muslims are terrorists?

No, that's like saying all African Americans are gang members or all southern Americans are hay-seed chewing, loudly braying rednecks. It's a crock of *nonsense*. Sweeping generalizations only serve to add fuel to a fire already burning out of control.

Do you believe that the Talibans or any other government that harbor terrorists should be remove?

Mixed feelings. YES because of the harm inflicted on their people and the crimes committed upon anyone not believing in the same *exact* manner the 'government' touts. BUT, by the same token, who am I to nay-say if another people have in some manner allowed a government to be set into place (even by default)? I can sit back and rail at the injustices and atrocities (and do), but whose right or obligation is it to draw the line for what's 'right' or 'wrong' for another? Who's going to 1) remove these governing bodies and how and 2) who's going to decide who replaces them?

Do you believe that bombing of Afghanistan or any other country who support terrorists will help in getting rid of terrorists

It may help in some small way, but ultimately, no. They'll just go further underground to pop up later in an even more terrifying manner.

What do you think about the coalition dropping food?

Wonderful idea, but too little, too late for most.

How do you think Western Civilization should deal with this problem?

We must first look to ourselves and our own policies. "Charity begins in the home" and so does security.

On a global basis, aid other countries (notice the word aid, not take control or even lead) to set policy which would not be conducive to terrorist action forming. Throughout history there have been discontented groups on the fringe who fought against the 'establishment'. Sometimes this was for the ultimate betterment of the people. Before we as Americans go jumping in to fight against the 'evil' (fill in the blank), we should take stock of the situation fully and make informed decisions rather than those based solely on what our pocket or our offended 'morality' says.

What do you think about the current Anthrax scare?

Potentially a huge problem. But I believe the media has blown the actual situation so far out of proportion that the risk factor is now incalcuable.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Garnet

AzureWolf · 10-23-2001, 08:23 AM

Your race (should people from the other side of the world come and visit, I want them to see that our problems are with the terrorists and not with them), where you're from, your age, your education, your native language, your religious beliefs and your political affiliation?

Born an Aussie but brought up in NZ, I live in Aus at the moment, Im 18, finished H school and now doing a 3d modelling course, English is native language, no religious beliefs, i am a pacifist.

What do you think about the 9-11 attacks?

There is no excuse for what happened, and is one of the worst crimes in recent history.

Do you think that the attack were a reaction to US (or Western Civilization) policies over the years

Yes I do. I think that the Western societies tendancy to get involved in International pursuits that do not involve them antagonises and brings about what we have seen.

Do you think that the US "had it coming"?

I believe that the moral superiority and might that the US shows to the world is a prime fact in this. Like I said there is no excuse for what happened. But yes I do think the US had it coming.

Do you believe that a state should base is policies on moralities or the protection of the national interest?

I echo Ryanamur here by saying that of course it SHOULD be set on moralities. But in the current state of the world without the national intrest no state would survive long. Even a blend of the two is a rare occurance.

Do you believe that Bin Ladden should be brought to trial for his crime?

NO

What do you think should be done about Bin Ladden, his associates or any other terrorists?

One shot to the head.

Do you believe that all Muslims are terrorists and that only Muslims are terrorists?

That is ignorance on a supreme scale to even suggest to others that they are. Terroists exist in a society where they believe that they have the justification to visit destruction upon a nations properties and peoples. There is no country or race in the world that terroists could not find a place in. They are the extremists of the worst kind.

Do you believe that the Talibans or any other government that harbor terrorists should be remove?

YES. But only by the peoples that the government rules. Other countries have NO right to do this on their moral justice. Otherwise they are making the nations "soveriegn state" status obselete. They are creating a situation where they are doing what they feel is right. Thereby in effect placing that nation under its dictatorship.

Do you believe that bombing of Afghanistan or any other country who support terrorists will help in getting rid of terrorists

NO! All bombing will do is garner support for the terroists and instead of weakening them will in fact make them stronger. Yes you might deface their public side but terroists by nature are guerillas who do not have a home base.

What do you think about the coalition dropping food?

Clearly a cheap political manuveour to gather support for the idea that the US is "being friends to the poor afghanis" while bombing their homes and inflicting "collateral damage" (which IMO is a BULLSHIT term which is a diplomatic way of saying that its alright for some innocent people to die if the goal is reached. For innocent people to die is NEVER OK!!) IMO the US is being two faced with this scheme much like in that video "Diplomacy" where on one hand they are singing the song of peace and then on the other bringing violent death.

How do you think Western Civilization should deal with this problem?

Remove the source of the disease. This for terroism is almost impossible, but one can only try.

What do you think about the current Anthrax scare?

Exited fanatics who have no connection to Osama but have deluded fantasies of granduer that they are doing him a great service by these attacks.

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"I was born of darkness. My fathers eyes closed before mine opened. I am not of this world or the other, and I have the right to be what I am..."

Overlord of all that I behold and anything that i happen to not notice either.

Founding Hamlet of the HADB.

10-23-2001, 08:50 AM

Your race (should people from the other side of the world come and visit, I want them to see that our problems are with the terrorists and not with them), where you're from, your age, your education, your native language, your religious beliefs and your political affiliation?

I'm Chao Kang
Dutch Citizan
Chinese by Race
Education Is not finished but it's the highest form of high school availible in the Netherlands
I'm gonna study Chemestry, Biomedical Technology or Artificial Intelligence
I'm an Atheïst but respect Religion of ALL kinds except Astrology
Social Democratic, "extreemly" left but not as far as communism (don;t work but it's beautiful concept)

What do you think about the 9-11 attacks?

A Crime against Humanity
Should be punished and never be done again (logical)

Do you think that the attack were a reaction to US (or Western Civilization) policies over the years

Yes I think so, moreso on the US then western civilisation

Do you think that the US "had it coming"?

Yes they should have seen it coming but nobody deserves this

Do you believe that a state should base is policies on moralities or the protection of the national interest?

Moralities

Do you believe that Bin Ladden should be brought to trial for his crime?

Yes, by a neutral if possible Islamitic country And yes he will be found guilty

What do you think should be done about Bin Ladden, his associates or any other terrorists?

Trailed aswell not murdered

Do you believe that all Muslims are terrorists and that only Muslims are terrorists?

¡¡¡¡¡No!!!!!

Any group of people can be terrorists when the circumstances are right (or rather wrong) and they are held enough manipulated (not wrong but manipulated) information

Do you believe that the Talibans or any other government that harbor terrorists should be remove?

A goverment should be lead by people who have moralties aswell and act towards them, meaning not taking innocent lives.
If you harbor terrorists you should be removed
But it should be proven that the accused are indeed Terrorists

Do you believe that bombing of Afghanistan or any other country who support terrorists will help in getting rid of terrorists

No
It'll fuel the hate

What do you think about the coalition dropping food?

Good idea but it should have been done earlier and without the bombings

How do you think Western Civilization should deal with this problem?

Trail the suspects and Treat the whole world as equal

What do you think about the current Anthrax scare?

another Crime against Humanity
Not nessecerily from the terrorists

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[This message has been edited by Rikard (edited 10-23-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Rikard (edited 10-23-2001).]

Ronn_Bman · 10-23-2001, 09:58 AM

Your race (should people from the other side of the world come and visit, I want them to see that our problems are with the terrorists and not with them), where you're from, your age, your education, your native language, your religious beliefs and your political affiliation?

I'm a 35 year old caucasian male from Rockingham, North Carolina, USA, who is a few college credits short of a two year B.A. I've been working on it for 15 years, but somehow family and work take all my time

.

I spent 2 years in the US Army stationed stateside.

My first language is English and my second is French. I took 2 years of French in high school and 2 semesters in college, and I'm proud to say I can count to 49 and remember how to say library

My religious beliefs are Christian, more specificially Southern Baptist. While I have argued many points on religion in this forum, I certainly fall short of living up to my beliefs.

When I registered to vote at 18, I registered as Republican, because I liked Reagan. About 10 years ago, I changed to Independant because it better suits my political thinking. I live in a heavily Democratic county and state. There is usually no one to vote for in the Republican primary anyway, and as an Independent, I can choose which primary to vote in each year. This way I can choose the most important primary races to me.

What do you think about the 9-11 attacks?

Never in our history has such devastation been visited on American's. The fact that the primary targets were innocent civilians only makes it that much more despicable. More American's died as a result of the September 11th terrorist actions than all those lost on the Titanic and at Pearl Harbor combined. The largest body count resulting from a single terrorist attack in the history of the world. As American's, we always thought world terrorism was something that happened to other people, in other countries, but suddenly, in the space of 45 minutes on September 11th, we were moved to the top of the chart.

Do you think that the attack were a reaction to US (or Western Civilization) policies over the years

Everything every nation does is based, to some greater or lesser degree, on it's past. The US policies and actions over the last 50 years are not more important, than any 50 year period in our history. The past can't be changed, so let's change the future.

Do you think that the US "had it coming"?

No. Not in any way, shape, or form. Unequivocally, and without a moment's hesitation no. No, No, one-thousand times No.

Do you believe that a state should base is policies on moralities or the protection of the national interest?

Both. It's in the national interest to promote morality, and our morals strongly influence what we see as our national interest. If that seems like double-talk(and I know it may), it's because the two are so interwoven as to be inseparable.

Do you believe that Bin Ladden should be brought to trial for his crime?

If he could be captured alive, yes, but not in a US court. This would have to take place in an international WAR CRIMES TRIAL forum.

What do you think should be done about Bin Ladden, his associates or any other terrorists?

They should be killed as expeditiously as possible.

Do you believe that all Muslims are terrorists and that only Muslims are terrorists?

Nope.

Do you believe that the Talibans or any other government that harbor terrorists should be remove?

Only one answer here, yes. Governments who support terrorists wage war against the nations who are terrorized. When nations war with one another, the winner replaces the loser. No reasonable government makes these kinds of decisions without considering the cost. Unreasonable governments may not have thought it through, but the result is the same.

Some defeated nations are "luckier" than others, in that some conquerors, don't kill all the men, rape the women, and burn the cities. Afghanistan is one of these lucky nations. Some conquerors aren't looking for conquest, but for self protection.

Do you believe that bombing of Afghanistan or any other country who support terrorists will help in getting rid of terrorists

Yes. The collateral damage is a consequence of war, but those who start these actions have so little regard for their own people that it is a given that more people can be saved by dropping bombs. Sounds crazy, but not crazy like flying two planes into the WTC, instead "Crazy like a fox."

What do you think about the coalition dropping food?

We're sending food now, and we were sending food before all this began. No it's not enough to feed everyone, but there are people who go to bed hungry across the globe everynight, not just those whose government cares more about supporting terrorist and selling heroin than serving their populations needs. It's impossible to feed everyone everywhere, so we do the best we can. In time, we improve the system to feed more and more and include education, until we reach a point, years from now, when they don't have to BE fed, because they can feed themselves. It's something they've never been able to do in their countries history.

The only definition of the word "token" which applies to this effort can be found in Merriam-Webster's Colligiate Dictionary:
to·ken (3) : a distinguishing feature : CHARACTERISTIC. It is certainly a distinguishing feature of the United States of America's character that even during times of war we try to feed the hungry behind enemy lines.

If one person is fed, or if one life is saved, then is it "only" token"?

How do you think Western Civilization should deal with this problem?

Terrorist should be found and eliminated. Those that harbor them and support their activities should share their fate.

There are honest, decent, hardworking people in every country around the world who could run their countries as productive members of the world community if they didn't have to compete with these fanatical, hate-mongering cults. Not puppet governments, but governments "of the people, by the people, and for the people." No, they don't have to be like US, but those ideas are something all governments should strive for.

What do you think about the current Anthrax scare?

Bin Laden is involved to some degree. He didn't mail the letters anymore than he flew the planes, but he was involved.

Were American's involved? Somewhere along the line, more than likely. There are as many stupid America's in the world willing to follow fanatics, even foreign fanatics

Did radical American groups (non Bin Laden) decide this would be a great time to attack America? Doubtful.

WOW! This was only slightly less time consuming than doing last years tax returns...lol

------------------

[This message has been edited by Ronn_Bman (edited 10-23-2001).]

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10-22-2001, 11:41 AM	#1
Ryanamur Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: March 29, 2001 Location: Montréal, Canada Age: 50 Posts: 1,763	Very simple, in this tread, you simply state your position and why you hold your position with regards to the 9-11 attacks and subsequent development. NO DISCUSSION WHAT SO EVER ABOUT OTHERS POSITIONS. Just state where you stand so that others will be better able to understand where you're coming from in other treads and hopefully, prevent future personnal attacks in the discussions to come. EDIT: as some of you are probably wondering what this is for, I'll give it to you simple: I started this tread so that everyone on this board could realize that even though we might have different ideas as to how to deal with the ennemy, we've all identified our ennemy as being Bin Ladden and his associates! Noone on this board sides with the ennemy if you doubt me, answer the questions yourself and read the answer of others. I trully wish that even the members we've lost would post here so all can see what everybody's position really is... ______________________________________ Your race (should people from the other side of the world come and visit, I want them to see that our problems are with the terrorists and not with them), where you're from, your age, your education, your native language, your religious beliefs and your political affiliation? I'm a caucasian male from Canada. I'm 27 years old, I have a B.A. Honours with Major in International relations, a minor in History and a minor in Political Science. My first language is French, English is my second. I'm an atheist but some consider me agnostic. My political affiliation: I'm dead center. I old equal views from the Left wing and from the Right wing. What do you think about the 9-11 attacks? The attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were attrocious and a disgrace to mankind Do you think that the attack were a reaction to US (or Western Civilization) policies over the years Yes, I do think so. The involvement of Western Civilization in the Middle East and Africa as been detrimental to the national interests of those countries for some years now. Even though we provide them with supplies and monies, we are badly labled for letting the situation get this bad and for only paying attention to problems that we perceive like troublesome (ex. Iraq's invasion of Kuwait and the support for Israel). Do you think that the US "had it coming"? If you mean had it coming that those attack were warranted: no, I don't. However, I feel that yes they had it coming because of their rightfully self-proclaim title of "leader of our civilization". The are essentially the Biggest target to hit both symbolicly and physicly Do you believe that a state should base is policies on moralities or the protection of the national interest? In a utopic world, morality. However, given the true nature of the human race, this is impossible. One will always strive to dominate and if you let your guards down, you will be dominated. So in essense, one must base is foreign policies on the concept of the protection of his own interests... however detrimental it might turn out to be for others Do you believe that Bin Ladden should be brought to trial for his crime? No, this would only be percieve has big America enforcing it's will around the world. This would only help boost the support for Al-Queda in the future. It would be detrimental to our interest to do so. What do you think should be done about Bin Ladden, his associates or any other terrorists? Terrorists are a clear and present danger to our society and to the world. They should be executed on sight. Those include pranxters who terrorize for fun. In the case of Bin Ladden, send in special operation group to assassinate him. Once he's dead, you don't even brag about it. You don't publicize it, not at home nor abroad. You let it go. Do you believe that all Muslims are terrorists and that only Muslims are terrorists? Of course not for both statements. The majority of the Muslims around the world believe in the true basis of their religion: peace and peacefull behavior. Are all terrorists Muslims is also equaly false: every race as terrorists in it's ranks. All that needs to be done is to inflict terror by means of physical or mental force. Do you believe that the Talibans or any other government that harbor terrorists should be remove? Yes and no. I don't believe that it's up to us to remove the governements. It's up to the locals to do so. We should help them but not do it ourself. Do you believe that bombing of Afghanistan or any other country who support terrorists will help in getting rid of terrorists Yes, so long as NO colateral damage is inflicted. Once you started to inflict colateral damage, you actually help increase the support for the terrorists and their governement. That, is increasingly more detrimental to our interests than having rogue governments in place. Since it's impossible to not inflict any colateral damage, I do believe that bombing of foreign countries is detrimental to our interests and shouldn't be done. What do you think about the coalition dropping food? Good idea but very poorly orchestrated and executed. If you're going to drop 37,500 food boxes per day to help feed over 2,000,000 refugies you might as well just not do it at all. How do you think Western Civilization should deal with this problem? Internally, we must boost our police forces and give them the mandate and the tools to effectively conduct preamptive terrorists related arrests. We may have to let go some of our basic privacy rights but I believe that it's in the interests of everyone to do so. Internationally: we must hunt and kill terrorrists and remove the governments that support them. The prefered methods should be special ops regardless of the cost. Ironically, a few body bags on our side is better than a few body bags on their side. I say this because I believe that the more civilians we kill, the more civilians they will kill too. In the long run, we must help the 3rd world understand that we are not the Devil. We must help them in a way that respect their principles as well as ours. What do you think about the current Anthrax scare? I'm not convince that it's Bin Ladden's doing. The attacks are too small in nature, the effeciency of the attacks is debatable, the attacks cannot be used as a massive symbol of mass destruction to boost his ranks like the previous attacks (WTC, Pentagon, Embassies, USS Coles...)and, the final reason why I do not believe it could be Bin Ladden, is that it would be stupid to expose a network for such an inefficient attack (in comparision with others). I'm not ruling out the possibility that these Anthrax attack could be locally based. What I mean by locally is that national terrorist groups could be taken advantage of the situation to help destabilize the world even more. Plus, with all the attention focussed on Bin Ladden, they might be able to get away with it. ------------------ I'm the Wanderer without a clan... I bring justice without favorism. Though you may not agree with it, my judgement is final... and inconsequential [This message has been edited by Ryanamur (edited 10-22-2001).] [This message has been edited by Ryanamur (edited 10-22-2001).]

10-22-2001, 12:11 PM	#2
Memnoch Ironworks Moderator Join Date: February 28, 2001 Location: Boston/Sydney Posts: 11,771	This is an excellent idea, Ryanamur. Kudos to you for being so considerate. Maybe this is how we should communicate our thoughts with each other until we can learn to treat other people's opinions with respect. Let's see if we can all exhibit enough self-control to answer the questions rather than answering each other. Before people start complaining about how the questions are worded why don't we all give it a go and treat this in the spirit in which it was posted. ---------------------------------- Your race (should people from the other side of the world come and visit, I want them to see that our problems are with the terrorists and not with them), where you're from, your age, your education, your native language, your religious beliefs and your political affiliation? Spanish-Filipino-Chinese male, American and Australian citizen, grew up in US, now living in Sydney. Age 28, business degree, marketing major, Roman Catholic, speak Spanish, Filipino and English, centre leaning left. What do you think about the 9-11 attacks? The worst of crimes - mass murder on a grand scale. Do you think that the attack were a reaction to US (or Western Civilization) policies over the years I believe that perceived injustices inflicted by Western (NOT just US) nations may have contributed to the overall feelings of hatred etc which motivated this attack. This does NOT in any way imply that the US deserved to be attacked or that the attack was justified. Do you think that the US "had it coming"? NO. Do you believe that a state should base is policies on moralities or the protection of the national interest? On both. Do you believe that Bin Ladden should be brought to trial for his crime? Yes. What do you think should be done about Bin Ladden, his associates or any other terrorists? Brought to justice and tried in a court of law. Do you believe that all Muslims are terrorists and that only Muslims are terrorists? No. Terrorism exists everywhere in the world as long as you have people willing to use violence to influence world events when it is NOT done in self-defence. Do you believe that the Talibans or any other government that harbor terrorists should be remove? Yes. Do you believe that bombing of Afghanistan or any other country who support terrorists will help in getting rid of terrorists If it destroys terrorist infrastructure and minimizes civilian casualties. I had a cousin who almost became "collateral damage" in the Middle East during the Gulf War, so I don't use the term "collateral damage" easily. What do you think about the coalition dropping food? Political act IMO. In practice better distribution mechanisms could have been found to deliver this, such as using aid agencies who have core competencies in aid distribution. How do you think Western Civilization should deal with this problem? Short term - find the perpetrators and bring them to justice. Long term - look at the causal reasons as to why such hatreds are being manifested and make an informed decision as to whether or not such attitudes are worth changing and if so how to approach changing these attitudes (education, understanding, etc). What do you think about the current Anthrax scare? I think it's related to the 9-11 attacks in some way, possibly al-Queda but more likely some organization affiliated with al-Queda. It's certainly succeeding in causing mass panic and anxiety in the US. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Memnoch (edited 10-22-2001).]

10-22-2001, 12:58 PM	#3
Moni Guest Posts: n/a	Your race (should people from the other side of the world come and visit, I want them to see that our problems are with the terrorists and not with them), where you're from, your age, your education, your native language, your religious beliefs and your political affiliation? I'm a mixed-race American female, 39 years old with enough education to do what I want...that includes a history in operating a family business, some college education, a history of management, as well as financial and structural evaluations of businesses I have worked for. I speak English, practice Christianity that is mixed with basic Jewish rules for moral values and good health. I have no defined political affiliations (I do vote), I'll go either way if it is the best thing for everyone (IMO lol). What do you think about the 9-11 attacks? Seeing as how the world was warned that further and more effecient attacks against the World Trade Center were to come, the only thing that surprised me was that innocent lives on passenger jets were used as ammo. Do you think that the attack were a reaction to US (or Western Civilization) policies over the years Policies? I dunno about that but one has to realize that the attacks were not against the U.S. alone. They were against the world and the world was hit in its financial epicenter. When means of finance are destroyed, a country (or in this case, countries) can eventually be brought down. We ought to be thankful that the attack did not go completely as planned. Do you think that the US "had it coming"? No. This is not "The U.S. vs The Rest of The World" Its Money vs No Money. One Pack of Religious Extremists' View vs Everyone Else's Riches does not make one powerful, yet power can be bought. Think about that one. Do you believe that a state should base is policies on moralities or the protection of the national interest? I think if you are going to protect national interest, you would also have to protect the moralities of the individuals who finance you. (hint hint...there's that money thing again) Do you believe that Bin Ladden should be brought to trial for his crime? I think the Al Queda should be brought to trial and I do believe in capital punishment. Kill the bastards and save some money. What do you think should be done about Bin Ladden, his associates or any other terrorists? Read my above response. Do you believe that all Muslims are terrorists and that only Muslims are terrorists? That would be pretty narow-minded! Of course not. Terrorists come in all races and from all religious backgrounds. Your next-door-neighbor could be one. Do you believe that the Talibans or any other government that harbor terrorists should be remove? Yes. Any government that harbors terrorists, be it the Taliban or The U.S. or Britain, should be dismantled. Do you believe that bombing of Afghanistan or any other country who support terrorists will help in getting rid of terrorists If you destroy their means of training and attack, you hinder their progress. Bomb away. What do you think about the coalition dropping food? Even a little help, even if it can't be enough is something. After all, who else will put themselves in the position to be a leader of civilizations when no one else will lift a finger to help? How do you think Western Civilization should deal with this problem? I think if countries closer to the problems got involved, the U.S. would take a lot less flack for being the bad guy in all this. What do you think about the current Anthrax scare? With the way the media played up bio-terrorism in the beginning and their repeated announcements of how to infect large numbers of people with anthrax and smallpox without ever being caught, it does not surprise me at all. Do you know where the only two contained smallpox viruses in the world are located? I do and I learned it by watching the news. Think I'd be tactless enough to type it out here? Sorry! ------------------ "A book is a mirror: if an ass peers into it, you can't expect an apostle to look out"~G. C. Lichtenberg Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not! [This message has been edited by Moni (edited 10-22-2001).]

10-22-2001, 10:08 PM	#4
John D Harris Ninja Storm Shadow Join Date: March 27, 2001 Location: Northport,Alabama, USA Age: 63 Posts: 3,577	______________________________________ Your race (should people from the other side of the world come and visit, I want them to see that our problems are with the terrorists and not with them), where you're from, your age, your education, your native language, your religious beliefs and your political affiliation? I'm a "Mutt", as Bill Murray said in "Stripes" my ancestors were kicked out of every decent counrty in the world. 40 year old Man, attending UCFS (University of Common Freecking Sense) planing to remain professional student. Native language Southern Red Neck, Christian, Conservative I have to look to my Left to see Ronald Reagan and Rush Lambuagh. What do you think about the 9-11 attacks? They were acts of War Do you think that the attack were a reaction to US (or Western Civilization) policies over the years Yes, in the minds of the attackers Do you think that the US "had it coming"? No Do you believe that a state should base is policies on moralities or the protection of the national interest? National interest, Who's moralities are we going to use? The Moralities of one nation are not the moralities of another. Do you believe that Bin Ladden should be brought to trial for his crime? No What do you think should be done about Bin Ladden, his associates or any other terrorists? The ones responsible for the attack on 11 Sept., 2001 should be hunted down and killed, quitely and without fanfare, no martyrs they are here then they are gone. Do you believe that all Muslims are terrorists and that only Muslims are terrorists? No Do you believe that the Talibans or any other government that harbor terrorists should be remove? Yes Do you believe that bombing of Afghanistan or any other country who support terrorists will help in getting rid of terrorists Yes, it is necessary to weaken and punish the Taliban making it easier for Special Forces to get in and kill the leaders and foot soldiers of the terrorist groups. What do you think about the coalition dropping food? A little is better than nothing How do you think Western Civilization should deal with this problem? Defend itself, when it must attack do so with ferocity,and give our enemies cause to think if they realy wish to continue the fight. After and only after they decide they no longer wish to continue the fight do you extend the olive branch. What do you think about the current Anthrax scare? Terrorist induced to scare the American public, look who they attacked the Media and Congress two groups insured to scream the sky is falling. ------------------ Crustiest of the OLD COOTS Airline ticket to Afghanistan $800 High powered rifle with scope $1000 Hotel room with roof access $100 A clean Head shot on that sack of Horse Manure Usuma Bin Laden PRICELESS!

10-23-2001, 12:26 AM	#5
250 Horus - Egyptian Sky God Join Date: March 4, 2001 Location: either CA or MO Age: 43 Posts: 2,674	Your race (should people from the other side of the world come and visit, I want them to see that our problems are with the terrorists and not with them), where you're from, your age, your education, your native language, your religious beliefs and your political affiliation? I am a Chinese, currently studying at USA, Washington University in St.Louis. I am 19. I am sort of between a non-believer and a christian. I believe a lot of what christian has to say, but I don't do a lot stuff that a christian does, so I cannot really consider myself one. What do you think about the 9-11 attacks? Disgusting, sick, while at the same time, it awoke something great in people Do you think that the attack were a reaction to US (or Western Civilization) policies over the years Yes Do you think that the US "had it coming"? Yes Do you believe that a state should base is policies on moralities or the protection of the national interest? Balance Do you believe that Bin Ladden should be brought to trial for his crime? No, execute him at where he is caught What do you think should be done about Bin Ladden, his associates or any other terrorists? same with John D'Harris Do you believe that all Muslims are terrorists and that only Muslims are terrorists? Definitely NO Do you believe that the Talibans or any other government that harbor terrorists should be remove? Yes, and do it NOW Do you believe that bombing of Afghanistan or any other country who support terrorists will help in getting rid of terrorists Yes, for no better purpose than moral boast. You can minimize lose of lives by targeting not populated areas, you know? What do you think about the coalition dropping food? We need more actions on this How do you think Western Civilization should deal with this problem? Treat the problem before it gets out of hand. The problem should been seen by "long term" and "short term". For the later one, western civilization needs to remove whatever current terroism organization there is, for the former, create understanding between east and west, give more financial support, be less aggressive on foreign policy. What do you think about the current Anthrax scare? People have to live on [/B]

10-23-2001, 07:46 AM	#7
Garnet Guest Posts: n/a	______________________________________ Your race (should people from the other side of the world come and visit, I want them to see that our problems are with the terrorists and not with them), where you're from, your age, your education, your native language, your religious beliefs and your political affiliation? American of Sottish descent with Native American. 38. BAs in Geography and Anthropology (PhD from School of Hard Knocks), current small business owner and homeschooler. American English, smidgen of Italian & Spanish (enough to get by). Non-Christian, non-Jewish, non-Muslim (Unitarian by affiliation). Best way to describe political affiliation--chaotic good. What do you think about the 9-11 attacks? Mind-numbing, heart-wrenching sorrow and determination that it will never happen again. Do you think that the attack were a reaction to US (or Western Civilization) policies over the years Yes, a snowball effect. Do you think that the US "had it coming"? NO ONE deserves to have such an act perpetrated upon them. But we should have seen it coming. Do you believe that a state should base is policies on moralities or the protection of the national interest? Whose moralities? That of the few and powerful or those of the many and mundane? And whose 'national interests' (those in power or the everyday joes?) Ideally a balance of both. Do you believe that Bin Ladden should be brought to trial for his crime? No. It would only focus on him more closely. (If it can be done quietly and without fanfare, then maybe) What do you think should be done about Bin Ladden, his associates or any other terrorists? Bin Laden, execution, quick and without mercy or hesitaiton. Terrorists in general--far too broad a field for a singular answer. Do you believe that all Muslims are terrorists and that only Muslims are terrorists? No, that's like saying all African Americans are gang members or all southern Americans are hay-seed chewing, loudly braying rednecks. It's a crock of nonsense. Sweeping generalizations only serve to add fuel to a fire already burning out of control. Do you believe that the Talibans or any other government that harbor terrorists should be remove? Mixed feelings. YES because of the harm inflicted on their people and the crimes committed upon anyone not believing in the same exact manner the 'government' touts. BUT, by the same token, who am I to nay-say if another people have in some manner allowed a government to be set into place (even by default)? I can sit back and rail at the injustices and atrocities (and do), but whose right or obligation is it to draw the line for what's 'right' or 'wrong' for another? Who's going to 1) remove these governing bodies and how and 2) who's going to decide who replaces them? Do you believe that bombing of Afghanistan or any other country who support terrorists will help in getting rid of terrorists It may help in some small way, but ultimately, no. They'll just go further underground to pop up later in an even more terrifying manner. What do you think about the coalition dropping food? Wonderful idea, but too little, too late for most. How do you think Western Civilization should deal with this problem? We must first look to ourselves and our own policies. "Charity begins in the home" and so does security. On a global basis, aid other countries (notice the word aid, not take control or even lead) to set policy which would not be conducive to terrorist action forming. Throughout history there have been discontented groups on the fringe who fought against the 'establishment'. Sometimes this was for the ultimate betterment of the people. Before we as Americans go jumping in to fight against the 'evil' (fill in the blank), we should take stock of the situation fully and make informed decisions rather than those based solely on what our pocket or our offended 'morality' says. What do you think about the current Anthrax scare? Potentially a huge problem. But I believe the media has blown the actual situation so far out of proportion that the risk factor is now incalcuable. [/B][/QUOTE] Garnet

10-23-2001, 08:23 AM	#8
AzureWolf 20th Level Warrior Join Date: May 3, 2001 Location: . Age: 41 Posts: 2,762	Your race (should people from the other side of the world come and visit, I want them to see that our problems are with the terrorists and not with them), where you're from, your age, your education, your native language, your religious beliefs and your political affiliation? Born an Aussie but brought up in NZ, I live in Aus at the moment, Im 18, finished H school and now doing a 3d modelling course, English is native language, no religious beliefs, i am a pacifist. What do you think about the 9-11 attacks? There is no excuse for what happened, and is one of the worst crimes in recent history. Do you think that the attack were a reaction to US (or Western Civilization) policies over the years Yes I do. I think that the Western societies tendancy to get involved in International pursuits that do not involve them antagonises and brings about what we have seen. Do you think that the US "had it coming"? I believe that the moral superiority and might that the US shows to the world is a prime fact in this. Like I said there is no excuse for what happened. But yes I do think the US had it coming. Do you believe that a state should base is policies on moralities or the protection of the national interest? I echo Ryanamur here by saying that of course it SHOULD be set on moralities. But in the current state of the world without the national intrest no state would survive long. Even a blend of the two is a rare occurance. Do you believe that Bin Ladden should be brought to trial for his crime? NO What do you think should be done about Bin Ladden, his associates or any other terrorists? One shot to the head. Do you believe that all Muslims are terrorists and that only Muslims are terrorists? That is ignorance on a supreme scale to even suggest to others that they are. Terroists exist in a society where they believe that they have the justification to visit destruction upon a nations properties and peoples. There is no country or race in the world that terroists could not find a place in. They are the extremists of the worst kind. Do you believe that the Talibans or any other government that harbor terrorists should be remove? YES. But only by the peoples that the government rules. Other countries have NO right to do this on their moral justice. Otherwise they are making the nations "soveriegn state" status obselete. They are creating a situation where they are doing what they feel is right. Thereby in effect placing that nation under its dictatorship. Do you believe that bombing of Afghanistan or any other country who support terrorists will help in getting rid of terrorists NO! All bombing will do is garner support for the terroists and instead of weakening them will in fact make them stronger. Yes you might deface their public side but terroists by nature are guerillas who do not have a home base. What do you think about the coalition dropping food? Clearly a cheap political manuveour to gather support for the idea that the US is "being friends to the poor afghanis" while bombing their homes and inflicting "collateral damage" (which IMO is a BULLSHIT term which is a diplomatic way of saying that its alright for some innocent people to die if the goal is reached. For innocent people to die is NEVER OK!!) IMO the US is being two faced with this scheme much like in that video "Diplomacy" where on one hand they are singing the song of peace and then on the other bringing violent death. How do you think Western Civilization should deal with this problem? Remove the source of the disease. This for terroism is almost impossible, but one can only try. What do you think about the current Anthrax scare? Exited fanatics who have no connection to Osama but have deluded fantasies of granduer that they are doing him a great service by these attacks. ------------------ "I was born of darkness. My fathers eyes closed before mine opened. I am not of this world or the other, and I have the right to be what I am..." Overlord of all that I behold and anything that i happen to not notice either. Founding Hamlet of the HADB.

10-23-2001, 08:50 AM	#9
Rikard Guest Posts: n/a	Your race (should people from the other side of the world come and visit, I want them to see that our problems are with the terrorists and not with them), where you're from, your age, your education, your native language, your religious beliefs and your political affiliation? I'm Chao Kang Dutch Citizan Chinese by Race Education Is not finished but it's the highest form of high school availible in the Netherlands I'm gonna study Chemestry, Biomedical Technology or Artificial Intelligence I'm an Atheïst but respect Religion of ALL kinds except Astrology Social Democratic, "extreemly" left but not as far as communism (don;t work but it's beautiful concept) What do you think about the 9-11 attacks? A Crime against Humanity Should be punished and never be done again (logical) Do you think that the attack were a reaction to US (or Western Civilization) policies over the years Yes I think so, moreso on the US then western civilisation Do you think that the US "had it coming"? Yes they should have seen it coming but nobody deserves this Do you believe that a state should base is policies on moralities or the protection of the national interest? Moralities Do you believe that Bin Ladden should be brought to trial for his crime? Yes, by a neutral if possible Islamitic country And yes he will be found guilty What do you think should be done about Bin Ladden, his associates or any other terrorists? Trailed aswell not murdered Do you believe that all Muslims are terrorists and that only Muslims are terrorists? ¡¡¡¡¡No!!!!! Any group of people can be terrorists when the circumstances are right (or rather wrong) and they are held enough manipulated (not wrong but manipulated) information Do you believe that the Talibans or any other government that harbor terrorists should be remove? A goverment should be lead by people who have moralties aswell and act towards them, meaning not taking innocent lives. If you harbor terrorists you should be removed But it should be proven that the accused are indeed Terrorists Do you believe that bombing of Afghanistan or any other country who support terrorists will help in getting rid of terrorists No It'll fuel the hate What do you think about the coalition dropping food? Good idea but it should have been done earlier and without the bombings How do you think Western Civilization should deal with this problem? Trail the suspects and Treat the whole world as equal What do you think about the current Anthrax scare? another Crime against Humanity Not nessecerily from the terrorists ------------------ [This message has been edited by Rikard (edited 10-23-2001).] [This message has been edited by Rikard (edited 10-23-2001).]

10-23-2001, 09:58 AM	#10
Ronn_Bman Zartan Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: North Carolina USA Age: 58 Posts: 5,177	Your race (should people from the other side of the world come and visit, I want them to see that our problems are with the terrorists and not with them), where you're from, your age, your education, your native language, your religious beliefs and your political affiliation? I'm a 35 year old caucasian male from Rockingham, North Carolina, USA, who is a few college credits short of a two year B.A. I've been working on it for 15 years, but somehow family and work take all my time . I spent 2 years in the US Army stationed stateside. My first language is English and my second is French. I took 2 years of French in high school and 2 semesters in college, and I'm proud to say I can count to 49 and remember how to say library My religious beliefs are Christian, more specificially Southern Baptist. While I have argued many points on religion in this forum, I certainly fall short of living up to my beliefs. When I registered to vote at 18, I registered as Republican, because I liked Reagan. About 10 years ago, I changed to Independant because it better suits my political thinking. I live in a heavily Democratic county and state. There is usually no one to vote for in the Republican primary anyway, and as an Independent, I can choose which primary to vote in each year. This way I can choose the most important primary races to me. What do you think about the 9-11 attacks? Never in our history has such devastation been visited on American's. The fact that the primary targets were innocent civilians only makes it that much more despicable. More American's died as a result of the September 11th terrorist actions than all those lost on the Titanic and at Pearl Harbor combined. The largest body count resulting from a single terrorist attack in the history of the world. As American's, we always thought world terrorism was something that happened to other people, in other countries, but suddenly, in the space of 45 minutes on September 11th, we were moved to the top of the chart. Do you think that the attack were a reaction to US (or Western Civilization) policies over the years Everything every nation does is based, to some greater or lesser degree, on it's past. The US policies and actions over the last 50 years are not more important, than any 50 year period in our history. The past can't be changed, so let's change the future. Do you think that the US "had it coming"? No. Not in any way, shape, or form. Unequivocally, and without a moment's hesitation no. No, No, one-thousand times No. Do you believe that a state should base is policies on moralities or the protection of the national interest? Both. It's in the national interest to promote morality, and our morals strongly influence what we see as our national interest. If that seems like double-talk(and I know it may), it's because the two are so interwoven as to be inseparable. Do you believe that Bin Ladden should be brought to trial for his crime? If he could be captured alive, yes, but not in a US court. This would have to take place in an international WAR CRIMES TRIAL forum. What do you think should be done about Bin Ladden, his associates or any other terrorists? They should be killed as expeditiously as possible. Do you believe that all Muslims are terrorists and that only Muslims are terrorists? Nope. Do you believe that the Talibans or any other government that harbor terrorists should be remove? Only one answer here, yes. Governments who support terrorists wage war against the nations who are terrorized. When nations war with one another, the winner replaces the loser. No reasonable government makes these kinds of decisions without considering the cost. Unreasonable governments may not have thought it through, but the result is the same. Some defeated nations are "luckier" than others, in that some conquerors, don't kill all the men, rape the women, and burn the cities. Afghanistan is one of these lucky nations. Some conquerors aren't looking for conquest, but for self protection. Do you believe that bombing of Afghanistan or any other country who support terrorists will help in getting rid of terrorists Yes. The collateral damage is a consequence of war, but those who start these actions have so little regard for their own people that it is a given that more people can be saved by dropping bombs. Sounds crazy, but not crazy like flying two planes into the WTC, instead "Crazy like a fox." What do you think about the coalition dropping food? We're sending food now, and we were sending food before all this began. No it's not enough to feed everyone, but there are people who go to bed hungry across the globe everynight, not just those whose government cares more about supporting terrorist and selling heroin than serving their populations needs. It's impossible to feed everyone everywhere, so we do the best we can. In time, we improve the system to feed more and more and include education, until we reach a point, years from now, when they don't have to BE fed, because they can feed themselves. It's something they've never been able to do in their countries history. The only definition of the word "token" which applies to this effort can be found in Merriam-Webster's Colligiate Dictionary: to·ken (3) : a distinguishing feature : CHARACTERISTIC. It is certainly a distinguishing feature of the United States of America's character that even during times of war we try to feed the hungry behind enemy lines. If one person is fed, or if one life is saved, then is it "only" token"? How do you think Western Civilization should deal with this problem? Terrorist should be found and eliminated. Those that harbor them and support their activities should share their fate. There are honest, decent, hardworking people in every country around the world who could run their countries as productive members of the world community if they didn't have to compete with these fanatical, hate-mongering cults. Not puppet governments, but governments "of the people, by the people, and for the people." No, they don't have to be like US, but those ideas are something all governments should strive for. What do you think about the current Anthrax scare? Bin Laden is involved to some degree. He didn't mail the letters anymore than he flew the planes, but he was involved. Were American's involved? Somewhere along the line, more than likely. There are as many stupid America's in the world willing to follow fanatics, even foreign fanatics Did radical American groups (non Bin Laden) decide this would be a great time to attack America? Doubtful. WOW! This was only slightly less time consuming than doing last years tax returns...lol ------------------ [This message has been edited by Ronn_Bman (edited 10-23-2001).]

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