Instruments of torture for sale....

[Fljotsdale]

Not sure if this should be in here or in GD, but I found the following in a magazine dated Nov 8th 2001. The newspaper the info is taken from is not dated, but I know from experience with this mag that it will have been during the last 6-12 months:

"Trade in tools of torture is on the rise," says an article in the German newspaper Sudwest Presse. According to .. Amnesty International, 150 companies around the world have allegedly joined this gruesome trade, including 30 in Germany and 97 in the United States. Their wares include .. leg irons and serrated thumb cuffs .. high voltage electroshock devices .. remotely controlled belts that send up to 50,000 volt electric shocks through the victims body. Such high-tech tools are preferred by torturers, since they hardly leave any traces on their victims.

.......

I think this is appalling! Do you think, as I do, that the manufacture of such devices should be banned by law? At present, our goverments ALLOW it, for pete's sake!

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Dubbed Queen of the Illuminati by Diogenes.



[This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited 10-11-2001).]

Appalling yes. Sick, yes. Need to banned, yes. Unfortunately, if such were banned, the 'trade' would go underground and the allure would be increased. That which is 'forbidden' is always made more attractive by the hint of the illicit.

Unfortunately, it doesn't surprise me at all. This sort of business has been around since man first built cities and discovered new realms of power. For every good, decent person, there seems to be another bent on twisting goodness awry.

Garnet

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Fljotsdale: Not sure if this should be in here or in GD, but I found the following in a magazine dated Nov 8th 2002. The newspaper the info is taken from is not dated, but I know from experience with this mag that it will have been during the last 6-12 months: "Trade in tools of torture is on the rise," says an article in the German newspaper Sudwest Presse. According to .. Amnesty International, 150 companies around the world have allegedly joined this gruesome trade, including 30 in Germany and 97 in the United States. Their wares include .. leg irons and serrated thumb cuffs .. high voltage electroshock devices .. remotely controlled belts that send up to 50,000 volt electric shocks through the victims body. Such high-tech tools are preferred by torturers, since they hardly leave any traces on their victims. ....... I think this is appalling! Do you think, as I do, that the manufacture of such devices should be banned by law? At present, our goverments ALLOW it, for pete's sake!

Yes, I do most strongly believe that they should be banned. If you go to an arms fair, you can see them laid out and choose which will do the job most efficiently. We had an arms fair in the Docklands around the time of the Sept 11th bombing, just afterwards, if I remember rightly. It went ahead as planned, amidst much protest by many more enlightened human beings, who do not believe that the torture of their fellow human beings is the way forward.

I believe the sale of such instruments should be banned globally. Companies selling them should be prosecuted and their assets disposed of to the public good upon proof positive being supplied of traffic. We supply these foul goods to regimes all over the world, - it is disgusting, appalling, nauseating madness.

The fact that WE, in the democratic West make fortunes out of torture instrument sales (not to mention the billions spent on arms and related) makes a mockery of our claims of being a 'superior society (as Berlusconi recently claimed and as so many on this board are claiming every day.) Wipe out this EVIL trade, I say!! We are less than human until we do.



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Most Ecstatic and Exotic Mistress of the Illuminati

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Garnet: Appalling yes. Sick, yes. Need to banned, yes. Unfortunately, if such were banned, the 'trade' would go underground and the allure would be increased. That which is 'forbidden' is always made more attractive by the hint of the illicit. Garnet

I understand your point completely (witness prohibition in America, drug laws everywhere and so on... ) however, in this case I disagree. Ban it, I say, and enforce the ban under the rule of law. Send the message! Stop people from legitimately profiting. Why should they worry? What they are doing is legal. The message from society is: yes, this is fine for you to do, go right ahead. It needs to stop. A laisser faire attitude on this one wont get us anywhere! or so I believe.

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Most Ecstatic and Exotic Mistress of the Illuminati

[Sir Kenyth]

The shock belts need to go definately. Even though they are legitimately used to control very dangerous criminals being moved. The risk for abuse is too great. I'm sure these devices are very popular with those who enjoy torture also. Regular stun guns and cattle prods are the biggest problem. Unfortunately, these items also have legitimate uses. Although I believe the voltages could be toned down a bit on the cattle prods. Stun guns(batons), when used properly, are a very effective non-lethal weapon for use in riot control or unarmed criminal subduing. It's because of this that their risk for abuse is so high. I'm not sure if banning them would actually reduce foreign tormentors or not. It may just alter their method. If forced to choose, I would rather be shocked than beaten by a billy club. I've been shocked by a 50,000 V stun gun for five seconds. It was a test a freind and I conducted while I was a teen and bought one. They do sting quite a bit and produce a cramping sensation after a couple of seconds. The pain dissipates shortly after the shock stops. Exports probably do need some sort of control. I'm just not sure what would do the trick. ANYTHING can become a torture implement if someone is sickly determined to do it.

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Sir Kenyth: ANYTHING can become a torture implement if someone is sickly determined to do it.

Yes, true. Even matchsticks.
But these things are being made SPECIFICALLY for the purpose of torture, and the manufacturers are profiting from the deliberate infliction of torture on others. Its immoral. Its disgusting.
What if American citizens in other countries are subjected to torture by instruments deliberately made for the job by American manufactures? Or Britons by torture instruments made in Britain? We'd shout loud enough if we found that happening, wouldn't we? And you can bet it HAS happened only we don't know about it!
Making instruments of torture is sick. That manufacturers can make them LEGALLY is an indictment of EACH OF US AS CITIZENS, because we are letting our governments get away with it. We should be out there shouting!


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Dubbed Queen of the Illuminati by Diogenes.

[250]

dude... what the heck, I can use that tortue device... I seriously do...

[Sir Kenyth]

I'm just worried that in completely banning non-lethal methods, we inadvertently raise the use of potentially lethal methods. I thought stun batons were made primarily for riot control and such?

Originally posted by Fljotsdale: Yes, true. Even matchsticks. But these things are being made SPECIFICALLY for the purpose of torture, and the manufacturers are profiting from the deliberate infliction of torture on others. Its immoral. Its disgusting. What if American citizens in other countries are subjected to torture by instruments deliberately made for the job by American manufactures? Or Britons by torture instruments made in Britain? We'd shout loud enough if we found that happening, wouldn't we? And you can bet it HAS happened only we don't know about it! Making instruments of torture is sick. That manufacturers can make them LEGALLY is an indictment of EACH OF US AS CITIZENS, because we are letting our governments get away with it. We should be out there shouting!

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Member of ORT
Official royal toad! Ribbit! Ribbet I say!

The true secret to happiness is not having what you want, it's wanting what you have!

[Sir Kenyth]

Originally posted by 250: dude... what the heck, I can use that tortue device... I seriously do...

I'm sorry 250. I don't understand your meaning here.

[Sir Kenyth]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what's happening. Are law enforcement tools being exported and falling into the tormentors hands, or have companies sprung up that manufacture and sell items outside of these pretenses that are actually designed to be used in torturing? I mean, handcuffs and stun batons were not originally designed for this purpose.

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Member of ORT
Official royal toad! Ribbit! Ribbet I say!

The true secret to happiness is not having what you want, it's wanting what you have!