Israel outraged as EU poll names it a threat to peace

[Skunk]

Israel outraged as EU poll names it a threat to peace
Israel has been described as the top threat to world peace, ahead of North Korea, Afghanistan and Iran, by an unpublished European Commission poll of 7,500 Europeans, sparking an international row.
The survey, conducted in October, of 500 people from each of the EU's member nations included a list of 15 countries with the question, 'tell me if in your opinion it presents or not a threat to peace in the world'. Israel was reportedly picked by 59 per cent of those interviewed.

The leaking of the results of the poll to El Pais and the International Herald Tribune has sparked a bitter row, with a major Jewish human rights and lobbying group, the Simon Wiesenthal Centre, demanding that the EU be excluded from the Israel-Palestinian peace process and accusing Europe of suffering the worst outbreak of 'anti-semitism' since World War Two.

The results appear to be a mark of the widespread disapproval in Europe of the tactics employed by the government of Ariel Sharon during the present intifada.

Israeli Ministers and spokesman have also been at pains recently to insist that a definition of modern 'anti-semitism' should include criticism of the way the state of Israel chooses to protect itself, defining that criticism as an overt attack on Israel's survival.

Members of the Sharon government have bridled at the efforts of Tony Blair and UK officials to try to mediate between the two sides. At one stage journalists were briefed that Israel regarded the Foreign Office as having an 'Arabist' bias.

Reacting to the poll, the Simon Wies enthal Centre, which claims 400,000 members in the US alone, has begun ordering a petition to condemn the European Commission and demand the EU no longer be represented in the so-called Quartet group trying to mediate an end to violence between Israel and Palestine.

The poll also comes against a background of an increase in anti-semitic attacks in Europe in the past year, although the evidence in countries such as France suggests that many are being committed by young Islamists.

'This poll is an indication that Europeans have bought in, "hook, line and sinker", to the vilification and demonisation campaign directed against the state of Israel and her supporters by European leaders and media,' said Rabbi Marvin Hier, the Wiesenthal Centre's founder.

'This shocking result that Israel is the greatest threat to world peace, bigger than North Korea and Iran, defies logic and is a racist flight of fantasy that only shows that anti-semitism is deeply embedded within European society, more then at any other period since the end of the war,' he added.

[Skunk]

"Israeli Ministers and spokesman have also been at pains recently to insist that a definition of modern 'anti-semitism' should include criticism of the way the state of Israel chooses to protect itself, defining that criticism as an overt attack on Israel's survival."
That's just plain silly. There is a world of difference between the political entity of Israel and religious entity of Judaism. And besides, not all Jews are Israeli's and not all Israeli citizens are Jews.

What next, will we refuse to criticise the Iranian regime because we don't want to be labeled as 'anti-Islamic'??

[Azred]

Any time anyone criticizes Israel for anything the immediate response is "they are anti-Semitic". This continues to work because people feel guilty somehow for something that happened 50 years ago in Nazi Germany--get over it! It's over!

It doesn't take a genius to see that Israel is a threat to peace in the Middle East, since they are obviously intent on killing all Palestinians (the only reason they don't just do it is because not even they could justify it).

[HolyWarrior]

And here I thought they were just anti-American...

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Skunk: "Israeli Ministers and spokesman have also been at pains recently to insist that a definition of modern 'anti-semitism' should include criticism of the way the state of Israel chooses to protect itself, defining that criticism as an overt attack on Israel's survival." That's just plain silly. There is a world of difference between the political entity of Israel and religious entity of Judaism. And besides, not all Jews are Israeli's and not all Israeli citizens are Jews. What next, will we refuse to criticise the Iranian regime because we don't want to be labeled as 'anti-Islamic'??

Agreed. However, there is anti-semitism behind a lot of the banter. We can't ignore it. True, it is not the same as criticism of the Israeli state or its politics or its actions. However, we can't ignore that anti-semitism and Israeli criticism do go hand-in-hand quite often.

A Zionist movement? A plot to rule the world? No. Wrongfully keeping illegally annexed land and building walls to make portions of such annexed lands part of the greater Israel? Yes.

As I have said before, many sympathize with the plight of the Israelis, surrounded by those who hate them. Many feel, as I do, that taking preemptive action in the late 60s against armies amassed on their borders was genius. Annexing land (the "buffer" territories of the West Bank, Gaza and Golan) as part of that was WRONG. Trying to keep those lands, settle those lands, and suppress the peoples therein (Palestinians) is WRONG.

Arafat is horrible. He led the PLO for Chrissakes! He is a roadblock to peace and a tacit supporter of terrorism. But, the Butcher Sharon is his mirror image, and is no better.

Israel should get out of occupied territories and sequester itself to its rightful lands. It could, and perhaps should, strictly control its borders and let no -- NO -- Palestinians in. Keep to itself, as it were. Its army is far superior to those around it, and the threat from '67 won't be there again. It should make itself an island in the middle east, for its own safety, but it shoud NOT keep trying to solidify the wrongfully annexed lands.

[WillowIX]

Well duh! The response from Israel pretty much proves the poll.

Originally posted by Timber: Agreed. However, there is anti-semitism behind a lot of the banter. We can't ignore it. True, it is not the same as criticism of the Israeli state or its politics or its actions. However, we can't ignore that anti-semitism and Israeli criticism do go hand-in-hand quite often.

If you are talking about the middle-east or the US I agree. The rest of the world? I doubt it. Why? Because we have no real experience with the concept Zionism. And Germans aren't even allowed to talk about it.

Ah well, since we are now all anti-semitists, I guess Israel is on its own from now on.

[johnny]

Originally posted by Azred: Any time anyone criticizes Israel for anything the immediate response is "they are anti-Semitic". This continues to work because people feel guilty somehow for something that happened 50 years ago in Nazi Germany--get over it! It's over! It doesn't take a genius to see that Israel is a threat to peace in the Middle East, since they are obviously intent on killing all Palestinians (the only reason they don't just do it is because not even they could justify it).

Not just the Nazi's, that was just a last attempt to get the Jews out of Europe. They have been hunted down for hundreds of years, basically in EVERY European country. So yeah, my guess is that this is coming forth from anti semitism. It's still here. Jewish graveyards are being violated regularly. The Europeans haven't learned very much from the past.

[johnny]

Originally posted by HolyWarrior: And here I thought they were just anti-American...

What a bright, refreshing remark, i feel already like i have known you all my life.

[Skunk]

Not just the Nazi's, that was just a last attempt to get the Jews out of Europe. They have been hunted down for hundreds of years, basically in EVERY European country. So yeah, my guess is that this is coming forth from anti semitism. It's still here. Jewish graveyards are being violated regularly. The Europeans haven't learned very much from the past.

Hey! As you know, all EU states are officially Christian - so you're comments are anti-Christian!

I would also like to be the first to condemn this very obviously anti-semitic demonstration. Where do these people get off criticising Israeli policy - don't they realise that it's anti-semitic?

Seriously though - I didn't raise this thread for yet another a full-blown discussion on the merits of either side's case in the conflict. I just wanted to point out the absurdity of the Israeli government's position with regard to critiscism. By all means shout that we are wrong in our perceptions of the state of affairs and explain why, but don't play the race/religion card - especially when many jewish europeans and Israelis are themselves highly critical of Israel's policies towards the occupied territories.

One last example. Is this man also making anti-semitic remarks? Or are only Israeli's and jews allowed to criticise Israeli policies without the stigma of being labelled anti-semitic?

Could it also be that Europeans (as a whole) have weighed up the facts and come to a clear-headed and logical conclusion without having anti-semitic thoughts. Just because the conclusion is not the same as your own is not suggestive of religious bigotry - however to generalise and state that Europeans opinions are driven by anti-semitic thoughts is itself a bigoted statement.

Have you considered that?

[Davros]

Originally posted by johnny: quote: Originally posted by HolyWarrior: And here I thought they were just anti-American...

What a bright, refreshing remark, i feel already like i have known you all my life. [/QUOTE]I don't understand what you are saying johnny - was there a message in this?