Pacifist and Idealist synonymous? A word about war from a war vet..

[Sir Kenyth]

Let me speak a little irritation I'm having as I read posts on the current situation. I'm starting to associate pacifist with idealist lately. I keep hearing that we'll be killing babies and innocent citizens. We should just be able to seive out the militants easy as pie and leave the locals untouched. Let me tell you a little cold hard fact. The militants hide in a bunch of innocent citizens on purpose. It makes for indecisive and cautious attacks on them and good propaganda when "innocent" citizens die. A good number of those innocents will become militants in the time it takes to hand them a gun and an attitude. A good number of those innocents will have no problem and probably feel honored to hide their folk hero (Bin Laden) and his troops. Hell, they're buying "Bin Laden" T-shirts faster than they are being made and probably had a big party when the trade center went down! War is war. You can't spend years trying to sort out the bad guys if the population doesn't support you. The WWII bombing of Japan was horrific. It was severe overkill and not our finest hour. The sad fact of the matter is that it was effective. The enemy was severely crippled in every way possible and quickly surrendered. That's the way war is. If you don't hurt the enemy, the'll hurt you, and they won't quit just because you show mercy! They'll take the opportunity to strike again! It's a shame non-combatants have to die in combat. Think of it this way, we've already given in the non-combatant department, we've lost thousands of non-combatants. How high do you want the number to go before taking effective action? These are OUR people dying!!! You want THEM to be safe at the cost of US?! If they want to protect their people, they'll do what they can to avoid this and stop supporting and harboring the terrorist network. They'll quit playing dumb and sniping us when we're not looking. They're counting on our moral code to protect them and keep them going. Hardly an honorable thing. I don't think they'll ever give up Bin Laden, even if they had him right now. Face it, they LIKE him. They BELIEVE in him! They WANT him! They LIKE what he does! They DANCE on the graves of our dead! SO BE IT! It's time to take it to THEM now, instead of waiting for the next bullet in the dark!!!!!

We are already killing innocents by starvation. 2 million more are on the brink of starvation and no relief-aid can get to them because the Afgan borders are closed, thanks to the military build up. 7000 HUMANS (humans from many countries) already dead, 2 million+ more on the way in return. One can easily figure out why military intelligence is sometimes considered an oxymoron by doing the math.

The pain we have felt lately concerning senseless loss of HUMAN life, is just the tip of the iceberg.

[MILAMBER]

Originally posted by G'kar: We are already killing innocents by starvation. 2 million more are on the brink of starvation and no relief-aid can get to them because the Afgan borders are closed, thanks to the military build up. 7000 HUMANS (humans from many countries) already dead, 2 million+ more on the way in return. One can easily figure out why military intelligence is sometimes considered an oxymoron by doing the math. The pain we have felt lately concerning senseless loss of HUMAN life, is just the tip of the iceberg.

We haven't closed any borders. Their neighbors [Iran] have closed their borders of their own volition. Incidentaly, Iran isn't in cooperation with the US whatsoever either.

Please don't feel that I am stating any opinion one way or the other on the original post. I wouldn't touch that with at ten foot pole. I do however disagree with the idea that the U.S is responsable for the Taliban's and Russia's starving of Afghanistan.

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"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
-General George Patton (1885-1945)

Member of CLAN HADB

Originally posted by MILAMBER: We haven't closed any borders. Their neighbors [Iran] have closed their borders of their own volition. Incidentaly, Iran isn't in cooperation with the US whatsoever either. Please don't feel that I am stating any opinion one way or the other on the original post. I wouldn't touch that with at ten foot pole. I do however disagree with the idea that the U.S is responsable for the Taliban's and Russia's starving of Afghanistan.

Yes, all Afganistan's neighbors( Iran, Pakistan, Russia, I know there is others, but my atlas out of reach) have totally closed their borders, although Russia is considering humanitarian airlifts and have opened their airspace for the same. I blame any and every decent person who would let that many people possibly starve and do or say nothing. Also- If the military build-up hasn't caused the borders to remain closed, then what has?

Be Realistic and Look at FACTS

first of all
An American live is worth no more then the live of any other world citizen

Second
America got the Taliban to power
America got Sadam to power
And this to stop the "Red Danger"
a danger created by the americans themselfs by not being far to Russia after the WOII

Honestly i can see where Osama bin laden is coming from
I DO NOT AGREE WITH IT
but i think we should look at the underlying reasons before we go confict people
Fact is that America is always helping the Jew in Isreal and that can be quite frustrating
Second America does not respect the way that the islamic countries live
Third Terrorism was thought by the Americans themselfs

WHEN WILL YOU LEARN?
this way of bombing countries doesn't work
it didn;t work in Iraq
It didn;t work in Kosovo
It won;t work in Afganistan
because all you do is hurt the innocent
And the real badguys enjoy that as they will hate the americans even more

Militairy ain;t always the solution

Stop creating you own problems

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I'm Watching you...



[This message has been edited by Rikard (edited 09-26-2001).]

[Sir Kenyth]

If Bin laden put that effort and money of his into helping the population have peace and get an economic footing instead of attacking others through elaborite suicide plans, perhaps starvation wouldn't be as big of an issue. Trouble is, I don't think he cares about the general populace. He's an upper caste Saudi with lots of money. The peasants are expendable and lower than worm s#!t in his book. Believe me, I've been to Saudi and experienced the "freindly" upper caste. Talk about superiority complexes!

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Sir Kenyth: Let me speak a little irritation I'm having as I read posts on the current situation.

Gosh, what a very big long post to express a 'little irritation'. Let's hope you don't get really pissed off - the forum will positively overflow with oodles of textual ire!!

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Ascended Mistress of Illumination

[Sir Kenyth]

Originally posted by Rikard: Be Realistic and Look at FACTS first of all An American live is worth no more then the live of any other world citizen

NOW THERE'S WHERE YOU'RE WRONG!!!! DEAD WRONG! An American life is worth more to me. You see, I'm an American! Maybe you aren't. If not, I couldn't be happier about it. If you are, maybe you need to go live somewhere else! Perhaps you'd give your own mother in exchange for Bin Laden and a couple of his cronies? By your equation, it's a better deal right?

Originally posted by Sir Kenyth: If Bin laden put that effort and money of his into helping the population have peace and get an economic footing instead of attacking others through elaborite suicide plans, perhaps starvation wouldn't be as big of an issue. Trouble is, I don't think he cares about the general populace. He's an upper caste Saudi with lots of money. The peasants are expendable and lower than worm s#!t in his book. Believe me, I've been to Saudi and experienced the "freindly" upper caste. Talk about superiority complexes!

Close minded fellow you are
that's the way their sociaty works
I know a lot of strange stuff western people do
like throwing pigs into far to small cages and feeding them till they can;t even hold their own weight.
Making arguments with their Family
putting your parents in a nursing home when they get old instead of taking them into your house

Different Cultures
Accept it


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I'm Watching you...

[Sir Kenyth]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: Gosh, what a very big long post to express a 'little irritation'. Let's hope you don't get really pissed off - the forum will positively overflow with oodles of textual ire!!

Heh, heh! I'll try and keep the flames below 2400 F.