Suggestions for party please.

[Target]

Hello, I’ve been thinking for a while about having a go with Wiz 8, (currently playing NWN). But I’m not sure what to do for my party. I like melee and hybrid classes. And would like to play the following but I can only choose 6!! There are good and bad points for all of them, but I just don’t know who to pick and who to leave out...

Dracon Fighter – A good strong Tank, lots of damage and kills
Human Valkyrie – Pole arms, damage, healing spells,
Dwarf Lord – For dual wielding maces, healing spells, and regeneration + Damage resistance
Elf Monk – I like Monks, playing one in NWN, plus Psionics spells.
Hobbit Samurai – A sword master!! Mage spells, lots of kills and damage.
Mook Ranger – Ranged combat, auto search, Alchemist spells therefor money.
Faerie Ninja – CoC, Alchemist spells therefor money
Hobbit Rogue – pickpocket, lock picks, back stab with daggers and swords.
Hobbit Bard – resting bonus, lots of instruments. Poss. PP and LP
Elf Bishop – For Spells.

Has anyone got any good ideas on what to do??
Cheers

[TinyMage]

I would keep the lizardman fighter for sure if your a beginner, they are very good early on.

The bishop and the faerie ninja may not be so easy for a starter. But if you really want them go for it.

The lord and valkyrie are basically the same class. I would just take either one, not both. And since you can recruit a valkryie ( you can recruit a total of 2 RPC's, making it possible to have 8 characters ), I would cross both the lord and the valkyrie off and take the recruitable valkyrie when you get a chance.

You seem to be overly reliant on hybrids for your magic. I would drop some of the hybrids and take a specialist or two ( mage / priest / alchemist / psionic ). They are essentually 5 levels ahead of hybrids ( in terms of magic ) which makes a BIG difference, especially if you're new.

In my opinion you should only take either the rogue or ninja. Taking both is a bit redundant IMO.

Hope this narrows it down.

[GMK]

The only magic you strictly need is the protective spells. Everything else just helps, and can be neglected if youre dishing out extra damage anyway. You can get by without it, probably without a problem.

If you focus your bishop on wizardry and divinity principally, you can get these spells out early and high-powered, but dont neglect the other spellbooks totally, since there are some pretty neat spells around. This leaves a bit of a gap in alchemy and psionics. Easy. You like the monk, take it. he's very nice with bare hands. Thats some psionics for you. And a ranger is incredibly useful for a beginner since his scouting ability makes up for the fact that you won't know where to search to find useful items. But bear in mind that this is just one of many possibilities.

Thats the spells covered. For the rest, take what you want. All classes are useful. Fighter and rogue are top-class damage dealers, samurai just behind, then lord and valkyrie. Faerie ninja gets CoC but will be weak until then, and the bard's instruments are very useful. As long as you take probably two of: fighter, lord, valkyrie, samurai any combination will work. If you only have one, you may end up with too little meat on the front lines, but thats far from the end of the world. Its possible to play spellcaster-only parties, so you should have no real problems with any build.

Thats the beauty of this game. Every class is good. There is an argument for including every single class in a party, and unless you really leave a huge hole in your build somewhere you will manage to finish it (with a little luck).

Also, dont get depressed when you leave the monastery. The next bit is probably the hardest part of the game, so keep going.

[Sinteuil]

If you decide not to take a valk or a lord, and recruit the valk instead, you'll have a bit of a problem later because the recruitable valk won't go to certain areas unless you force her in, and then she'll be hexed. In this case, I'd highly recommend taking a bard because their instruments cover most of the important priest spells which you'd be lacking otherwise. Also, the bard is one of the best classes for a new party because they offer an excellent balance between fighting, lockpicking, and magic.

[Klutz]

Originally posted by Target: Hello, I’ve been thinking for a while about having a go with Wiz 8, (currently playing NWN). But I’m not sure what to do for my party. I like melee and hybrid classes. And would like to play the following but I can only choose 6!! There are good and bad points for all of them, but I just don’t know who to pick and who to leave out... Dracon Fighter – A good strong Tank, lots of damage and kills Human Valkyrie – Pole arms, damage, healing spells, Dwarf Lord – For dual wielding maces, healing spells, and regeneration + Damage resistance Elf Monk – I like Monks, playing one in NWN, plus Psionics spells. Hobbit Samurai – A sword master!! Mage spells, lots of kills and damage. Mook Ranger – Ranged combat, auto search, Alchemist spells therefor money. Faerie Ninja – CoC, Alchemist spells therefor money Hobbit Rogue – pickpocket, lock picks, back stab with daggers and swords. Hobbit Bard – resting bonus, lots of instruments. Poss. PP and LP Elf Bishop – For Spells. Has anyone got any good ideas on what to do?? Cheers

My recommendations picking from that list:

Definitely play in 1st game:

Dracon / Lizardman Fighter: One Fighter is definitely a good idea for the first time through. Strongly consider Lizardman as a race, as they are practically bred to be Fighters, but Dracons are very good Fighters also. The premiere Wiz8 melee combat class bar none. Use Berserk for insane damage.

Mook Ranger: Ranger is fantastic first time through just for the auto-search, and a solid class in general. There's an NPC but you won't find her for a while. Instakill at range rocks.

Hobbit Bard: Bards are incredible in Wiz8, and you'll find lots of useful instruments. They are also surprisingly effective in melee, and have lots of nice bard-only armor and misc items. This makes them actually play very much like a hybrid.

Elf Bishop: Since you like hybrids, the Bishop will cover all the high-level spellcasting needs. Don't be afraid to learn all 4 spellbooks, and remember Alchemy practice can reduce the need to manually spend points in that spellbook. Consider a Faerie for better spellcasting stats (but much more fragile and worse equipment options), and regardless of race be sure to invest somewhat in Speed and/or Senses to be able to cast those high level spells quickly.


Strongly consider in 1st game:

Elf Monk: There is an NPC Monk available eventually (and a very popular one at that), but that NPC can't cast spells like your PC Monk can. Probably my favorite Wiz8 class, and certainly my favorite hybrid. Stealth not only improves their AC, but makes enemies tend to avoid targeting them. Martial arts does great damage both early and late, and doesn't require the dual wield skill. Consider a Human, simply because this is one of the few classes they are actually the best at (tied with Elf, your first choice, and Felpurr).

Hobbit Samurai: There is an NPC Samurai that isn't very popular or good, so creating your own is better and Hobbit is a great Samurai race. If you like hybrids, this is a good one to add. Sword specialty is great and you'll get great swords early and late. (HINT: There's a fantastic cursed sword in Arnika, and your Bishop can remove curse at will to remove it.)


Consider, but probably not for 1st game:

Hobbit Rogue: Rogues in Wiz8 automatically attempt to backstab on every hit, and can get increasingly high backstab multipliers as the game goes on. Stealth not only improves their AC, but makes enemies tend to avoid targeting them. This makes them second only to the Fighter in melee combat. Consider Felpurr as a good Rogue race also. The only strike against them is that you want hybrids. I'd replace the Fighter to add a Rogue.

Dwarf Lord: The Lord and Valkyrie are the only hybrids that can wear full plate armor, and they get the Priest spells. The dual-wielding specialty is not all its cracked up to be... it's nice, but in my opinion not nearly as useful as the Samurai (Sword) or Monk (Martial Arts) specialties. Rawulfs are also good Lords, and Humans aren't bad either. Pick if you want a slightly more defensive hybrid.


Save for later:

Human Valkyrie: There's a very good NPC Valkyrie that you can recruit early on to try this class out. I actually like it, and the reach you get with Polearms is quite useful. You can also get very good Polearms much earlier than the best of most other weapon types.

Faerie Ninja: The Cane of Corpus is a fantastic weapon, but the Ninja is pretty underpowered as a class in Wiz8. Lots of skills to learn, but tough to learn them all, and even with them all the Ninja still is a worse close combatant than the other hybrids (let alone the Fighter and Rogue), and a worse ranged combatant than the Ranger. Still worth playing at some point, but not the first time.

Gadgeteer: You didn't list this, but at some point it is a class well worth trying out. There is a good Gadgeteer NPC you can recruit if you want to try the class out in your first game. There are some very potent gadgets to assemble, and like Bards they can hold their own in combat also. The better gadgets tend to be tougher to find/assemble than the instruments though. They are good at ranged combat with their Omnigun, but not as good as a Ranger. Like the Bard, they play very much like a hybrid.

Whatever you choose, good luck and have fun!

[Target]

Thanks for the suggestions. I had my ideas all ready, got my 6 all thought out, I then hit a small snag.
Had installed the game about a year ago, but moved house soon after, so I clicked on the wiz 8 icon to play and what happens??? Yes it tells me to insert disk 3!!! What????? I think, dam it's in a box somewhere in the loft!!! Typical!!! Aagghhhhh

Oh well I’m sure this will give me more time to come up with several different ideas for a party!!

So questions...

Does a rogue learn the PP and LP’s skills any faster than a bard?
And is there much difference between the damage a fighter and Rogue can do?

[GMK]

Rogue starts with a few more points in pp/l&t and gets 25% higher skill with locks and traps. So if he had 24 it would count as 30. Apart from that, it will depend totally on stats (int/dex i think)

The difference between fighter and rogue damage is dependent upon the build you use, really. Both have the potential to dish out large amounts, fighter probably more, but not by a huge margin. The main fighter advantage over a rogue is his ability to take damage as well as deal it. The rogue gets the sneaky skills instead.

[Target]

Will there be much difference in AC between a rogue with high stealth and a fighter with the heavy armour he wears?
I guess I want to know if it’s better to take a bard and a fighter or a Rogue, which leaves a spot open for someone else?

[Klutz]

Originally posted by Target: Will there be much difference in AC between a rogue with high stealth and a fighter with the heavy armour he wears? I guess I want to know if it’s better to take a bard and a fighter or a Rogue, which leaves a spot open for someone else?

At high stealth, it will be very close. I'd say for pure AC that the Rogue probably would get the nod at top levels with the best equipment, especially when you add in the fact that stealth makes it less likely the Rogue will be targeted in the first place. High level Fighter armor has other benefits also, including various resistance bonuses and even regeneration of hit points, spell points, and stamina.

You could certainly replace Fighter + Bard with Rogue + x. I'd actually say Rogue + Bard (and have already said how I like Bards), but you could squeeze in another hybrid like the Dwarf Lord you wanted (who can also wear heavy armor) since you specifically want more hybrids. A high vitality Dwarf Lord would actually pair pretty well with a Rogue, being able by design to take all the hits that the Rogue is dodging.

Good luck CD hunting!

[Target]

Thanks
Next question

How does the number in your party affect development, is there much of a difference between say 4, 5 or 6 in the party?

Also how does the apprentice thing work? Say I wanted a Mook Valkyrie, will I not be allowed to level up for 2 or so levels and the new attribute points go straight into the needed fields?
Hope that makes sense.