Weapon Skills

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

As usual I'll probably be proven wrong, but I don't find the weapon skills (or some other skills)mean very much. I gave one of my characters Diamond Eyes in place of her stiletto (dagger skill 60, mace skill 0) and she seems to hit just the same. There's no extra damage, I don't think there's extra swings at higher levels so what's the deal? She about Lvl 17 now.

[allstargoaly]

(From what I know) I think your weapon skill has to do with how well you wield that certain kind of weapon. I need you to post the Name of the Weapon that was replaced by the Diamond Eyes. If it is a dagger, than tell me it's Name and list the Attack power (example: [name] Main Gauche at [attack] 1-5). Also tell me what Race and Profession your character is.

As you can probably guess, Diamond Eyes is a great weapon (actually would work well as a second primary weapon). If your Mace/Flail skill is at 0, then you won't get any additional hits or damage. Diamond Eyes hits around 7-22 (normally). If your skill was higher in Mace/Flail, it will do massive damage; as well as, give you more hits.

As you can see, if you have a dagger that hits around 1-5 with a dagger level of 60, your hits do more damage and you can attack more (than if you were at dagger level 0).

[EEWorzelle]

Farseer, the weapon skill helps you hit and penetrate with that kind of weapon. It also affects the number of Attacks or Swings (don't remember which, or maybe it is both), when using that weapon.

The thing is that Weapon Skill is not the only thing that gives you that. There's Close Combat, Senses, Strength and Dexterity. After a certain point, your "To Hit" is high enough so you usually hit, and adding additional "To Hit" capability (or taking it away) might not be that noticable. In stead of missing one Swing every three Attacks, you might miss one every two Attacks, for example. Penetrate is similar. Once your attack penetrates it penetrates.

Go after some really tough foes, where the effective To Hit and Penetrate are decreased by their level. Then you may notice a difference between having and not having that Mace Skill for Diamond Eyes.

Allstargoaly makes a good point also about the specific weapon. Diamond eyes has bonuses to both To Hit and Weapon Initiative, so that might be a compensating factor, also.

[ 09-19-2003, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: EEWorzelle ]

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

OK, I hear ya'. It just doesn't seem to make that much of a difference especially with damage. That seems to be totally dependant on strength?

regarding damage, AFAIK, for melee weapons it is completely dependent on three things

the base damage of the weapon
the strength of the character wielding it
whether the weapon is in the right or left hand (off-hand halves the strength bonus)

[rbeane1]

Just a note I switch my Rogue from dagger to sword
his sword skill was zero but he was able to hit just
about everyone right off as his close combat skill was maxed.

[EEWorzelle]

Sultans short list is correct and complete for a hit which penetrates, but I want to make a couple of other practical points about damage. Damage is also, in practical terms, dependent on doubling. 2x-4x damage is common enough so intentionally seeking the conditions (Beserk, crippling, etc.) that increase those effects makes a difference.

Strength continues above Strength=100. It goes all the way to 125, which is easy to forget. So an ankh of Strength, giving +10 Strength can make a huge difference over time in the amount of damage, whereas if you are already hitting and penetrating most of the time a +10 Dexterity Ankh does nothing, where earlier when you were missing and failing to Penetrate like mad that +10 Dexterity Ankh has a big impact. That's why the Bard with Strength of only 100 is wasting her talents. Hummm, that makes me wonder if a fighting Gadgeteer in the front lines concept could work, for the same reason (the +20 Strength Tinker bands)... later.

The overall damage in practical terms is dependent upon the number of times you swing, and the number of hits that penetrate. Increasing "To Hit" makes a difference for damage only if one is missing a lot without it. If one is hitting 90% of the time, increasing "To Hit" can only impact the 10% (similar for penetration, or even Attacks/Swings once they hit the max almost all the time).

excellent point, eew. although i couldnt have articulated it so well, i've always been a big fan of double ankhs of strength on my melee'rs.

correct me if i'm wrong, but setting aside weapon/academic combat skills, dex and senses both contribute to chance to hit and chance to penetrate, while strength will only help penetrate once you've hit.

so if you're already hitting regularly (eg due to high combat skills), strength boosts alone might be enough to ensure pentration. but if you're missing a fair bit, then dex/sen boosts are called for.

sorry, eew, i may be repeating what you said in a different way.