Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh

Jarak · 06-10-2003, 05:16 PM

Hello.

I ascended four times, sold the game & tried many others.
Nothing came close, so I bought another.
Man, I love to play this game!
Glad to see others are still playing as well.

Ziggurat · 06-10-2003, 05:42 PM

Welcome back!! I get two monthly computer game magazines to keep abreast of new CRPG developments. If there is a game as good as Wiz 7 or 8, I want it. From reviews, friends comments, etc., I have come to the conclusion that there are no new ones out there yet. You confirm this. We all may have to wait another 5 or 6 years for another of this quality and game playability.

P.S. I have Morrowind and its first attachment, gave up after 15 hours or so. Just didn't have the "magic". D.W. Bradley's next one (Dungeon Lords) may be similar, having one character instead of a party. His angle will probably be less tedious and more creative, so I may give it a shot.

EEWorzelle · 06-10-2003, 08:34 PM

Jerak, yes!! Welcome back to the foamie party!

The strategic aspects of this game are awesome, aren't they? I have focused on only one aspect (Magic-Heavy Parties) and still, whenever I post experiences and observations there are those out there who have gone deeper and farther in every respect.

If you played Melee orientated parties before, you might try the magic side. Or maybe you did that before and can help those of us doing it now, do it better. It (as you may or may not know) is a very different game when you use magic as the main way to damage and... overcome your foes, rather than just cripple them or thin their numbers in support fighters (including Hybrids) who do the work of killing them. All of the strategies and what is important and unimportant change if you go this way.

Tentatively, on another board, we defined:

Magic Heavy Parties - those with at least four pure optomized casters (including Powercast) out of Mage, Bishop, Psionic, Priest or Alchemist. There can be 0-2 other party members of any class. Magic is used to take out most enemies, not as support, with melee/ranged for cleanup, general support of the casters and taking out bosses. RPCs may be used or not (I use them... fun).

Pure Magic Parties - those with four to six optomized casters out of the above only. No RPCs (other than Fed-Ex quests). The other term usually used for this type of party is "dead."

Unless a couple (even if out of the above) are treated as and built up as fighters instead of going for Powercast and also optomizing their magic capabilities, it is difficult to see how such a party could make it through the entire game. On the other hand, the Magic-Heavy party fits the game beautifully.

These are not intended to restrict anybody or disqualify anyone's party if they don't meet the above exactly but want to call it "Magic Heavy" or "Pure Magic." I don't care. It's just that we try to talk about these things, and the above definitions are intended to give terms we can use in these posts to talk to one another. Maybe we can start with the above but review it in a couple months to see how the majority of players actually use the terms.

Wizardry 8 has set a new RPG standard for balance, strategic depth and fun. Even the rave reviews and numerous awards did not perceive most of it's value (as you know). It's really encouraging to hear veteran players such as yourself coming back to it after trying many others. That gives us all hope that more will recognize... what they are missing, and games of this quality will be beaten out of reluctant publishers. Just kidding - LOL.

Happy gaming!

[ 06-10-2003, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: EEWorzelle ]

Dobian · 06-11-2003, 05:53 PM

I still haven't started my second game, but stop by here about once a week. I'm in the middle of BG2 now, but when that's all through I'll be playing W8 again with a totally different party from my first time through. It's hard for me to compare RPGs because they're all so different. What other RPGs do the people here play?

Ziggurat · 06-11-2003, 10:57 PM

Dobian: Good question, I'm curious, too. I tried many in the past, some of which were good, waiting for a good one now...

Variol (Farseer) Elmwood · 06-12-2003, 08:10 AM

I know I'm going to get lots of abuse for this, but I still throw
in my old Might & Magic 6-8 now and then. Just make up a party and
have some mindless fun! I really prefer "turn-based" combat in an
RPG (especially with multiple characters) and games like Icewind Dale
just drove me nuts! I can't understand why more RPG's don't give this
option. I mean if you want turn-based, turn it on, if not, shut it off!
Pool of radiance did a good job of managing this. You could play various
speeds, the slowest being turn-based.
I know Pool of radiance was very bitter sweet but the combat style,
for me, was excellent. I also didn't have a lot of tech. problems like
so many other people. I think it's 'cos I don't keep a lot of stuff
running in the backround.
Wizards and Warriors is another example. I really liked the game but
I don't know what idiot came up with the controls. If it had been thought
out better I'd still be playing it on a regular basis now. I wish some
of you computer wizards out there could make a patch to make the game much
more user friendly (like the simple "Esc" key to get out of a menu!). You couldn't even get rid of your old characters. I uninstalled the whole game one time and re-installed only to find my characters still there?! That's my 2 cents.

P.S. How much longer do I have to be a guard...it's cold out here!

Wereboar · 06-12-2003, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Pure Magic Parties - those with four to six optomized casters out of the above only. No RPCs (other than Fed-Ex quests). The other term usually used for this type of party is "dead."

Unless a couple (even if out of the above) are treated as and built up as fighters instead of going for Powercast and also optomizing their magic capabilities, it is difficult to see how such a party could make it through the entire game.

Which problems should these parties have?

I played a 'Pure Spellcaster' party on expert ironman. Mage, Priest, Alchemist, Psionic, two Bishops. And with 'Pure Spellcaster', i mean no melee or missile attacks at all (except when turncoat or insane).

I intended to play without using the Summon Elemental spell, since that might be interpreted as some kind of melee attack. But there were three fights which i wasn't able to win otherwise. Two could be avoided (El Dorado and Nebdar), but then there's the final fight...

Variol (Farseer) Elmwood · 06-12-2003, 03:07 PM

Oh, by the way Jarak, you may want to have your "a" & "h" keys
on your keyboard checked; they may be sticking. Ha Ha

How the heck can you play with an all magic party? The front line
must get clobbered a lot.

EEWorzelle · 06-12-2003, 05:07 PM

Wereboar, as usual I am simply in awe about your knowledge and skill in this game!

I guess I was referring to ordinary mortal players, but yes, it was those two or three fights I was referring to. I would definitely include summoned elementals within the scope of pure magic, however, so, at least within my book, you have a result that qualifies and have set the standard.

I always look forward to reading your posts and hearing about the things you have tried with this game and succeeded at.

Excellent summation on your noob advice on magic in the other thread, also, btw. Sometimes some of us get so enthused about exploring the subtleties of this game that we merely end up confusing newer players.

Farseer, try a party with four specialist single school casters (one of each), a Bard, one other (even a Fighter) plus RPCs. Let the casters all go for Powercast and get damage spells (Shrill Sound, Whipping Rocks, Energy Blast, Mind Blast), etc., as priority over other types of spells. Just give it a try. This is the type of party I tend to play. It requires far, far less expertice than for a pure magic party. It's loads of fun and very powerful!

[ 06-12-2003, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: EEWorzelle ]

Dobian · 06-12-2003, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Variol (Farseer) Elmwood:
I know I'm going to get lots of abuse for this, but I still throw
in my old Might & Magic 6-8 now and then. Just make up a party and
have some mindless fun!

I love MM6-8! I still have a game of MM7 I started once that I want to go back to sometime. The first time I played MM7 I did the dark path, and I want to do the light path the second time around. MM games may be cheesy, but the combat and those huge dungeons are fun. Even W8 can't compete with MM for the sheer number, size, and design of the dungeons.

06-10-2003, 05:16 PM	#1
Jarak Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: June 5, 2003 Location: Yes Age: 73 Posts: 13	Hello. I ascended four times, sold the game & tried many others. Nothing came close, so I bought another. Man, I love to play this game! Glad to see others are still playing as well. __________________ >>insert signature here<<

06-10-2003, 05:42 PM	#2
Ziggurat Symbol of Cyric Join Date: November 4, 2001 Location: Baltimore, Md Age: 71 Posts: 1,106	Welcome back!! I get two monthly computer game magazines to keep abreast of new CRPG developments. If there is a game as good as Wiz 7 or 8, I want it. From reviews, friends comments, etc., I have come to the conclusion that there are no new ones out there yet. You confirm this. We all may have to wait another 5 or 6 years for another of this quality and game playability. P.S. I have Morrowind and its first attachment, gave up after 15 hours or so. Just didn't have the "magic". D.W. Bradley's next one (Dungeon Lords) may be similar, having one character instead of a party. His angle will probably be less tedious and more creative, so I may give it a shot. __________________ How are you today, Citizen?

06-11-2003, 10:57 PM	#5
Ziggurat Symbol of Cyric Join Date: November 4, 2001 Location: Baltimore, Md Age: 71 Posts: 1,106	Dobian: Good question, I'm curious, too. I tried many in the past, some of which were good, waiting for a good one now... __________________ How are you today, Citizen?

06-12-2003, 08:10 AM	#6
Variol (Farseer) Elmwood Jack Burton Join Date: May 16, 2003 Location: Dartmouth, NS Canada Age: 60 Posts: 5,634	I know I'm going to get lots of abuse for this, but I still throw in my old Might & Magic 6-8 now and then. Just make up a party and have some mindless fun! I really prefer "turn-based" combat in an RPG (especially with multiple characters) and games like Icewind Dale just drove me nuts! I can't understand why more RPG's don't give this option. I mean if you want turn-based, turn it on, if not, shut it off! Pool of radiance did a good job of managing this. You could play various speeds, the slowest being turn-based. I know Pool of radiance was very bitter sweet but the combat style, for me, was excellent. I also didn't have a lot of tech. problems like so many other people. I think it's 'cos I don't keep a lot of stuff running in the backround. Wizards and Warriors is another example. I really liked the game but I don't know what idiot came up with the controls. If it had been thought out better I'd still be playing it on a regular basis now. I wish some of you computer wizards out there could make a patch to make the game much more user friendly (like the simple "Esc" key to get out of a menu!). You couldn't even get rid of your old characters. I uninstalled the whole game one time and re-installed only to find my characters still there?! That's my 2 cents. P.S. How much longer do I have to be a guard...it's cold out here! __________________ A MAN WHO WANTS FOR NOTHING HAS INFINITE WEALTH. (me)

06-12-2003, 03:07 PM	#8
Variol (Farseer) Elmwood Jack Burton Join Date: May 16, 2003 Location: Dartmouth, NS Canada Age: 60 Posts: 5,634	Oh, by the way Jarak, you may want to have your "a" & "h" keys on your keyboard checked; they may be sticking. Ha Ha How the heck can you play with an all magic party? The front line must get clobbered a lot. __________________ A MAN WHO WANTS FOR NOTHING HAS INFINITE WEALTH. (me)

06-10-2003, 08:34 PM	#3
EEWorzelle Manshoon Join Date: October 25, 2002 Location: Gilbert, Az Age: 73 Posts: 234	Jerak, yes!! Welcome back to the foamie party! The strategic aspects of this game are awesome, aren't they? I have focused on only one aspect (Magic-Heavy Parties) and still, whenever I post experiences and observations there are those out there who have gone deeper and farther in every respect. If you played Melee orientated parties before, you might try the magic side. Or maybe you did that before and can help those of us doing it now, do it better. It (as you may or may not know) is a very different game when you use magic as the main way to damage and... overcome your foes, rather than just cripple them or thin their numbers in support fighters (including Hybrids) who do the work of killing them. All of the strategies and what is important and unimportant change if you go this way. Tentatively, on another board, we defined: Magic Heavy Parties - those with at least four pure optomized casters (including Powercast) out of Mage, Bishop, Psionic, Priest or Alchemist. There can be 0-2 other party members of any class. Magic is used to take out most enemies, not as support, with melee/ranged for cleanup, general support of the casters and taking out bosses. RPCs may be used or not (I use them... fun). Pure Magic Parties - those with four to six optomized casters out of the above only. No RPCs (other than Fed-Ex quests). The other term usually used for this type of party is "dead." Unless a couple (even if out of the above) are treated as and built up as fighters instead of going for Powercast and also optomizing their magic capabilities, it is difficult to see how such a party could make it through the entire game. On the other hand, the Magic-Heavy party fits the game beautifully. These are not intended to restrict anybody or disqualify anyone's party if they don't meet the above exactly but want to call it "Magic Heavy" or "Pure Magic." I don't care. It's just that we try to talk about these things, and the above definitions are intended to give terms we can use in these posts to talk to one another. Maybe we can start with the above but review it in a couple months to see how the majority of players actually use the terms. Wizardry 8 has set a new RPG standard for balance, strategic depth and fun. Even the rave reviews and numerous awards did not perceive most of it's value (as you know). It's really encouraging to hear veteran players such as yourself coming back to it after trying many others. That gives us all hope that more will recognize... what they are missing, and games of this quality will be beaten out of reluctant publishers. Just kidding - LOL. Happy gaming! [ 06-10-2003, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: EEWorzelle ]

06-11-2003, 05:53 PM	#4
Dobian Dungeon Master Join Date: January 29, 2003 Location: Belmont, Ca Age: 63 Posts: 83	I still haven't started my second game, but stop by here about once a week. I'm in the middle of BG2 now, but when that's all through I'll be playing W8 again with a totally different party from my first time through. It's hard for me to compare RPGs because they're all so different. What other RPGs do the people here play?

06-12-2003, 05:07 PM	#9
EEWorzelle Manshoon Join Date: October 25, 2002 Location: Gilbert, Az Age: 73 Posts: 234	Wereboar, as usual I am simply in awe about your knowledge and skill in this game! I guess I was referring to ordinary mortal players, but yes, it was those two or three fights I was referring to. I would definitely include summoned elementals within the scope of pure magic, however, so, at least within my book, you have a result that qualifies and have set the standard. I always look forward to reading your posts and hearing about the things you have tried with this game and succeeded at. Excellent summation on your noob advice on magic in the other thread, also, btw. Sometimes some of us get so enthused about exploring the subtleties of this game that we merely end up confusing newer players. Farseer, try a party with four specialist single school casters (one of each), a Bard, one other (even a Fighter) plus RPCs. Let the casters all go for Powercast and get damage spells (Shrill Sound, Whipping Rocks, Energy Blast, Mind Blast), etc., as priority over other types of spells. Just give it a try. This is the type of party I tend to play. It requires far, far less expertice than for a pure magic party. It's loads of fun and very powerful! [ 06-12-2003, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: EEWorzelle ]

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