Ethical Dilemma (spoiler)

[Cayle]

Do not read unless you have returned to Athlaka with the gift from Saermon Haermon.

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I am currently playing a Neutral Good Ranger (Stalker). After returning from the underdark, I proceeded directly to Waukeens Promenade. In front of the Adventurer’s Mart, I encountered a Githyanki war party. The leader wanted the silver blade back, told me he was a wild mage and that I really did not want him to start casting. It was a long (and humorous) dialog, but that is the short version.

Now, here is the ethical dilemma: We are in Waukeens Promenade, a public place with innocent townsfolk all around. Was the Gith Mage aiming his threats at my party and me? Or was he implying that many innocents would be hurt if I did not hand the blade over? I suspect that the game assumes the former, as you loose no reputation if you fight them. But then again, you can kill Adalon, a diabolical act, without loosing reputation (to be fair, killing any Dragon has zero effect on reputation either way) and I could imagine a PnP DM putting players in such an ethical bind. A fireball or horrid wilting spell could easily slaughter many innocents; a fiend could be gated in, etc. It is a classic “human shield” dilemma. Is it right not to give them the sword? But Githyanki are EVIL and a silver sword in their hands would certainly be used to commit atrocities. Which is the greater evil? Maybe it is just me, but I do not think this is a trivial question.

I am not even touching on what is the LAWFUL thing to do here, as the PC in question is NG, not LG. The silver blade rightfully belongs to the Githyanki, but in their hands it is an implement of chaos!

I played it this way: When I met the Githyanki after the Mind Flayer Dungeon, I chose the belligerent “I KILLED THE WHOLE DAMN BUNCH WITHOUT YOU” dialog path. I think this is appropriate as they betrayed me in the Mind Flayer dungeon. The Waukeens Promenade encounter was less than 36 game hours afterward. My PC was feeling very belligerent toward the Githyanki and was eager to have it out with them. The idea did briefly cross his mind that he may have been putting innocents at risk, but he was greatly influenced by his anger at the Githyanki. I was able to take them all down without any townsfolk being harmed. It worked out well in the end, but he is haunted by “what ifs”. I did not stop to talk to any townsfolk, so I do not know their reactions (if any). I think it will be an even tougher decision when my Cavalier eventually reaches the same point.

Any thoughts?


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- Cayle

[Throntar]

I am not *positive*, but I don't think that Gith are evil. I believe that they are a variation of Neutral??? I'd have to consult the Monster Manual to be sure...

I did not provide them with the blade my first time through because they had (as you so aptly pointed out) screwed me hard in the Mind Flayer dungeon and Minsc wanted a shiny new 2-hander.

This time through I will have no use for a 2-hander, so I will probably give it up...

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Now where did I leave that doughnut?!

[Black Knight]

Molehill, meet the mountain. I understand you are looking at this from an intensely roleplaying sort of way, which I respect. My way of thinking is that he is bad guy. You are Good. The Neutral part of you wouldn't give it up to him because that would upset the balance of power. Either way, time to hack and slash his arse. Besides, Not sure what you need with it, but it makes a cool sword. Oh, and I don't think Silver swords mean very much in this world, if that is what you are getting at.

Later

BK

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The Black Storm Cloud of the Night
Consort to a Queen
Champion of Truth, Justice and Cloudy's Way
Captain of the Knights of the Golden Dragons
Heart, Mind, and Soul
Offical Wizard and Warrior Questioner
What is this, the Spanish Inquisition?

Whether the Gith are evil or not, it is still unethical to steal their holy relics. Good people should respect the faith of others unless their actions harm others
.
My first character was an Undead Hunter. If it wasn't for the fact I personally wanted that sword for Minsc, I would have given the item back to him. In real life:
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1) The matter would be settled. No more Gith vengeance on you
2) Avoid diplomatic incident
3) Item was not originally stolen by you
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I tried returning it to the first Gith, but he attacked me anyway (idiot)

[Cayle]

Lord Shield makes a good point. I will likely give it up the next time I meet the Gith, if they do not start out red. My character's anger has abated and he no longer feels any need to antagonize them. Although he is beginning to harbor fantasies about cutting Irenicus' astral cord with it...


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- Cayle

[Cayle]

But this still does not answer the question about whether it was ethical to provoke a battle with a wild mage in a public place.

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- Cayle

[caleb]

You got a war party? only one guy confronted me. Abi dalzim only affects people with red circle so go ahead and attack him if you want and feel the guilt of stealing a holy relic you bad bad man.

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Meet my lawyer.

[Gimmick]

I know what you mean. My first fight with the gith turned ugly. The first thing I did was cast a spell, which summoned cowled wizards to kill me. A peasant or two died in the battle, which summoned guards to kill me also. I won the battle, but my reputation had dropped to 3.

Anyway, I reloaded, and avoided the guards and dead peasants by fighting the gith in the graveyard district instead.

[Accord]

As long as you are not using spell reflecting spells or items (e.g. Cloak of Mirroring), the fight should not turn ugly. Try to avoid area affecting spells, Giths are not that tough at melee. Abi Dalzim Horrid Wilting will do nicely.

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Long live H22A1!!!!!

[Cayle]

Caleb, they were initially quite spread out. I also thought it was just one at first, but it turned out to be the wild mage (forgot the name), a warlock, two mages, three or four knights and a couple of anti-palidins.

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- Cayle