class switching effectiveness penalty?

[fung]

I have recently read on a faq that dual classing will reduce the effectiveness of your previous skill...

For example: Lvl 25 bard and a Lvl 25 fighter who spent 18lvls as Bard, both has a music skill of 100

Now since both have at least 18 bard levels, both of the above can use all bard instruments.

Both have 100 in music, so in theory should be equally competent in music...but this is not true in the game.

However, the fighter (because he is a fighter) will not play instruments nearly as good as the bard, despite both having a music skill of 100.

Can anyone confirm whether the above is true?

[otter]

I've been using Bard-to-Fighter a lot, and they also get a Rogue level, usually L5, and then switch to Fighter usually at 8, but sometimes 11 or 18. I haven't noticed a decrease in effectiveness with any of the Instruments when i switch. Yes, i'm pretty sure a character with 25 Bard levels would be more effective at using the Instruments than a L25 Fighter with only 8 Bard levels, but a character with 17 Fighter levels does much more damage with combat than any L25 Bard can with Instruments or combat. I use Bards now primarily for Haste and Soul Shield, so when they get to L8 they can start berzerking with Giant's Sword.

[fung]

Yeah, I love using my bard to cast haste too. I find it too much a burden for my spell-casters mana to cast lvl 7 haste every battle (I don't like to rest too much).

I will probably switch him to a fighter as well after lvl 18...to use infernal horn etc.

I'm thinking now that the staff of doom may be better to use than a giant's sword. It allows me to make him a hobbit rather than mook (rather low starting spd).

In addition the staff of doom can be wielded by all professions...hence u can get it for your bard nice and early so that he can build up his staff/wand skill and close combat skill.

If I wanna use Giant's sword I'd have to wait until lvl 18...also there are no nice extended swords that bards can use, hence he/she cannot practice up the sword or close combat skill until lvl 18.

[Rhea]

Originally posted by fung: I have recently read on a faq that dual classing will reduce the effectiveness of your previous skill... For example: Lvl 25 bard and a Lvl 25 fighter who spent 18lvls as Bard, both has a music skill of 100 Now since both have at least 18 bard levels, both of the above can use all bard instruments. Both have 100 in music, so in theory should be equally competent in music...but this is not true in the game. However, the fighter (because he is a fighter) will not play instruments nearly as good as the bard, despite both having a music skill of 100. Can anyone confirm whether the above is true?

Yes, it's true. Basically, your former bard retains his level 18 skills but never plays at a level past that. And it does make a difference, although not a crucial one.

A level 30 Bard, for instance, can play Siren's Wail and make an entire group go insane - your lower level bard may miss a couple of people. It's not necessarily crucial, but it IS a difference. I think what confuses people is the fact that if you dual class your Bard at L18 your bard can *play* all the instruments available at the game. But your fighter will never be able to play them as well as a higher level bard, no matter the music skill, because level counts too.

I've dual-classed my bards several times, and it usually works fine. I noticed a difference in offensive music. You're less likely to notice the difference if you only use him to play defensive music.

As for not practicing combat skills before dualing, sure you can!

I only have a 4-person party, but my bard is in the front row with my ninja and lord, and she frequently gets some good licks in with her sword toward the end of combat, after all the baddies are insane, asleep, blinded, whatever. So you can develop her sword skills some before you dual class her. There's a reason why your bard starts out with a sword in her hand.

In fact, I'm playing a gnome bard this game (just for a lark - I'd gotten tired of running hobbits and felpurr), and for some reason that's totally inexplicable (no change in development), she totally kicks a$$ with a sword and has from the very beginning. A most pleasant surprise. [img]tongue.gif[/img] She's already so good with a sword that I think I'll leave her as a pure bard this game.

[ 07-25-2002, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: Rhea ]

[fung]

Thanx dude...

I get it now...so both number of levels as a bard AND music skill plays a role...so yeah now I can see how the more levels u spend as a bard the more effecitve he is at music.

Seeing as u have dualed bards, maybe u can offer me some words of wisdom.

Assume I have a lvl 18 bard with 100 in music skill. If I wanna use Infernal horn (nuclear blast) and Renaissance lute (restoration) effectively...can I switch to a fighter immediately at lvl 18. Or should I wait a couple more say lvl 20.

help appreciated.

[fung]

As for not practising b4 dualing...I can't with my current party.

This is my first time through expert ironman...so I decided to play it safe.

I have 2 lizard fighters and 1 farie ninja on front line.

Bard in middle

2 Bishops at back psi/wiz and alc/pri

I tried equipping the bard with the sword...but since he's in the middle...he almost never swings it...and there's no way I move the CoC ninja or lizard fighters into the middle to put the bard up front.

[Rhea]

Originally posted by fung: As for not practising b4 dualing...I can't with my current party. This is my first time through expert ironman...so I decided to play it safe. I have 2 lizard fighters and 1 farie ninja on front line. Bard in middle 2 Bishops at back psi/wiz and alc/pri I tried equipping the bard with the sword...but since he's in the middle...he almost never swings it...and there's no way I move the CoC ninja or lizard fighters into the middle to put the bard up front.

How about setting him up to be a fighter that specializes in pole arm, then? Give him an extended weapon and a chance to practice. Even from the middle, he should be able to whack away.

[fung]

I considered making him use polearms but...

my argument was that until he switches to a fighter at lvl 18...he will be a bard...and bards cannot wield polearms. So he will have no way to practise polearms until he is at least lvl 18 (kinda late).

Seriously tho. I found the only good extended weapons that bards can use is under the staff and wand category, quite a few nice ones,...and the staff of doom can be obtained pretty early in the game if u sneak to Mountain Wild.

[otter]

But you can get as many chars as you want in Short range of the enemy: you can spread the 3 from the front into L, C, R; leave the Bard C, and rotate if you get Enemies on the flanks only. You can get a whole party of 8 in Short range that way, or any #. That way your Bard can work a sword until it's time to switch to the GS. You gotta be getting some Vit, eh? Have a Bish put Guardian Angel on the Bard in tough fights...Though the Speed develops slower on a Mook, i've been using a Mook Bard-Fighter with a great deal of success in 3-4 Character parties where everybody is a murderous tank by L15 or so, and none of the others would have been nearly as good if they were Mooks. (But if i have a Ranger, that's the Mook, and the Bard-Fighter is a Felpurr)