The Elminster Series

[SpiritWarrior]

Just finishing up on the second last one right now and wondered how everyone that read this series found it? I have opinions on it myself but I'd like to see if It's just me.

[Larry_OHF]

<font color=skyblue>I have read and liked them all except for the last one "Elminster in Hell". It was not as good as the others, to me.</font>

[Xen]

I only read one book long ago... i think it was Elminster`s Temptations... i found is pretty good but i can`t really say much why, this was quite some time back.

[SpiritWarrior]

I peronally thought they were kinda weird. I did like them in some sense but Greenwood's style is strange and I think his writing skills are somewhat weak. Let me explain...

I felt like I was excusing alot of his stuff simply to find out how Elminster grew up. He seemed to spend more time on describing peoples' status in society and less on the awakening of magic in Elminster. His grasp of the elven race needs a serious re-working.

Even when spells were hurled they were brushed off casually as if Greenwood himself had been casting them all his life. I would be so bold to say that I could have crticised his books and made them better. Elminster is the ideal personafication of wizards everywhere and as such should be handled with extreme care. I think his character wasn't justified enough. No description of how magic 'felt' when first it was cast by the boy who abhorred it, but more about who it killed and where it went. There was really no 'magic' to the magic. The way Weis did Raistlin's awakening of magic in Soulforge was great. I felt like I knew exactly what he felt.

The plot was sometimes confusing. New characters were introdcued too often and with no justifiable reason. Myth Drannor was the most confusing of all. I really did not care for 3 chapters on the conversations of elven females.

Finally. Mystra was portrayed terribly, yet another result of allowing an inexperienced writer take on such an epic saga. She died like 3 (maybe 2) times in Avatar form, defeated by 20th level wizards (at most) who breached her one spell shield. Come on, I think the Goddess of magic herself - the very essence these wizards wield, comes a little more prepared than that. She then wastes half a book pretending to be someone else, finally appearing to Elminster as herself and informing him 'He passed the test' and then dissapears with the book moving forward so-so months with no real explanation.

I could go on but I haven't the time. The ideas and stories within theses novels I cannot fault, It's just the way they were implemented. I'm thinking if someone like Cunningham had this story she would have weaved us a memorable tale. This is a knock to the book and the author I won't deny that and I feel after reading almost every FR novel (particularly the classic TSR) I have the right.

Now I'm not sure if I'll even purchase Elminster in Hell. I was hoping since it was the newest that Greenwood had learned a little more during that time to deliver a good book, but since Larry said even that was bad I'm now having doubts ...

[SpiritWarrior]

If I might (to the writers credit) add that all the above flaws mentioned, there are times when he pulls things off very well. Sometimes (and this can go on for a few chapters) I lose myself in Greenwood's books, like I would any other good writers'.

I don't know whether he just hasn't the experience or he's trying to do too many things at once but after maybe 3 or 4 good chapters the the flow begins to careen downward again. It's a shame because like I said, I really do like the story and events that transpired.

[Morgeruat]

Memnoch and Luvian had some rather interesting things to say about El (and greenwood, who bears a striking resemblance to the artistic rendering of his character. I'll see if I can track down their posts on the matter.

[Morgeruat]

From Z I remember what Memnoch said about Spellfire sucking, but I decided to waste some time before the new Drow series 'Insurrection' book arrives, so I am reading this... (it's been re-released) but I have the old paperback. Anyway.. heh.. Mem, you are dead-on about this Book.. a group of training mages manages to kill not 1, but TWO Dracoliches and then gives Manshoon and the Black dragon he was riding on a severe beating... Oh yeah, Elminster was there towards the end, but come on.... I was laughing it was so silly.

from NightStalker I like the origional Spellfire mostly because of the Knights of Myth Drannor. I just got Hand of Fire (to finish out the series) and I now have to say that I agree completly with Z and Memnoc! I only got about 50 or so pages in before I quite. Shandril ends up being naked 4 or 5 times for no good reason. Sharantyr has a scene or two plus a Dutchess or the like, and a few others. IN 50 PAGES! It's not like it's even good smut .... the kind of drivel you would expect a 12 or 13 year old boy writes for his friends. All of it completely distracts from the plot (if there is one). The impression I am left with is Greenwood is just an old perv.

From Luvian Yes, Greenwood add lots of gratuitous nudity in his novels. I don't think I ever saw a novel he wrote that does not include a female character getting naked for no reason, and about half of the time one end up naked, Elminster is there to watch.

From Memnoch I hope you didn't spend money on Spellfire, Z...I think that a 6-pack of toilet paper would have been cheaper and probably more comfortable as well. Spellfire - A literary masterpiece...in comedy. A book about adventure? Try Sweet Valley High maybe. Shandril and her doofus boyfriend spend practically the ENTIRE novel drooling over each other and blasting every manner of powerful creature imaginable, including the most powerful dracolich that ever lived, a few Level 18 mages, baatezu, dragons, Manshoon, you name it, she can cook it. Makes your BG2 characters seem outright puny. Maybe the book should be titled, "Shandril Satay Sizzlers". And moving on to the sequel "Crown of Fire" (Mystra help us if he ever comes up with a trilogy!) there's the obligatory nude scene featuring Storm and Elminster (ever notice how all these sex scenes involve Elminster?) what is the point of that? I quote: "Clothing floated through the air in his direction; more than once Storm smiled her thanks at him. When she was done, he merely said, 'Ye still look magnificent lass.'"" C'mon! Elminster's not a dirty old man. Is he?? Didn't he look after Storm when she was still a baby? And I recall Ed saying that Ed (oops, I mean Elminster) has had sexual relations with ALL the Seven Sisters - who all look alike, incidentally. At least we all know what his type is, eh!! Of course when they lie together Storm is unclad while El is not. Of course! I'm not even going to mention how often Shandril walks around naked for NO REASON AT ALL. In fact she even sits on a Lord of Waterdeep's head naked! I'd long ago given up trying to understand how certain events described linked back to the plot, so I won't even make an attempt to make a connection here. Thank Tempus there was a rug between her and the guy's head, otherwise I'd be looking for the Playboy bunny on the spine of the book. His prose is turgid and completely lacking in originality and evocativeness. Truly, how often does he have to repeat the phrase "motes of light" before it sticks in his memory? Didn't he have Roget's thesaurus at hand when scribing his missive? And why, may I ask, does EVERY SINGLE FEMALE in his book have to be half-naked, naked, or naked and frolicking in the out of doors? His use of sex and sex scenes is totally unnecessary to the plot. Shandril Shessair certainly shares this exhibitionistic tendency, dropping her clothes at any given moment. I have no problem with sex or nudity in literature as long as they add, not detract from the plot. In this case they're just there obviously to give his 11yo target market wet dreams. Then again, that's Ed's target market so I guess I shouldn't compare him to Tolstoy or anyone, eh. Of course, these nubile, oversexed, uninhibited young temptresses all fall in love with Ed's alter ego Elminster, who happens to be 900+ years old. (Read the Temptation of Elminster - a book that has NO plot - but is good for a laugh and you will see what I mean. And while you're at it - look at the artwork of Elminster on the cover and then flip to the inner back cover of the book and check it against Ed's photo. Do you see a SIMILARITY??) Too bad Ed didn't include pictures to go with his books...then they might actually be worth the money.

And finally one from me I found this in Terry Pratchet’s “a light fantastic” I found it entirely suitable for any debate involving Ed “Uber” Greenwood. “…this particular hero was a heroine. A redheaded one. “Now, there is a tendency at a point like this to look over one’s shoulder at the cover artist and start going on at length about leather, thighboots and naked blades. “Words like “full,” “round,” and even “pert” creep into the narrative, until the writer has to go and have a cold shower and a lie down. Which is all rather silly, because any woman setting out to make a living by the sword isn’t about to go around looking like something off the cover of the more advanced kind of lingerie catalogue for the specialized buyer.”

[SpiritWarrior]

And you know that was another book I was wondering about, Spellfire. I know now not to go near it.

It always seems Greenwood gets the best cover pictures to his books (I know, I know don't judge a book by...) cuz Spellfires' cover looked great and that's how I remember seeing it.

[Harkoliar]

memnoch ------------------- I hope you didn't spend money on Spellfire, Z...I think that a 6-pack of toilet paper would have been cheaper and probably more comfortable as well. Spellfire - A literary masterpiece...in comedy. A book about adventure? Try Sweet Valley High maybe. Shandril and her doofus boyfriend spend practically the ENTIRE novel drooling over each other and blasting every manner of powerful creature imaginable, including the most powerful dracolich that ever lived, a few Level 18 mages, baatezu, dragons, Manshoon, you name it, she can cook it. Makes your BG2 characters seem outright puny. Maybe the book should be titled, "Shandril Satay Sizzlers". And moving on to the sequel "Crown of Fire" (Mystra help us if he ever comes up with a trilogy!) there's the obligatory nude scene featuring Storm and Elminster (ever notice how all these sex scenes involve Elminster?) what is the point of that? I quote: "Clothing floated through the air in his direction; more than once Storm smiled her thanks at him. When she was done, he merely said, 'Ye still look magnificent lass.'"" C'mon! Elminster's not a dirty old man. Is he?? Didn't he look after Storm when she was still a baby? And I recall Ed saying that Ed (oops, I mean Elminster) has had sexual relations with ALL the Seven Sisters - who all look alike, incidentally. At least we all know what his type is, eh!! Of course when they lie together Storm is unclad while El is not. Of course! I'm not even going to mention how often Shandril walks around naked for NO REASON AT ALL. In fact she even sits on a Lord of Waterdeep's head naked! I'd long ago given up trying to understand how certain events described linked back to the plot, so I won't even make an attempt to make a connection here. Thank Tempus there was a rug between her and the guy's head, otherwise I'd be looking for the Playboy bunny on the spine of the book. His prose is turgid and completely lacking in originality and evocativeness. Truly, how often does he have to repeat the phrase "motes of light" before it sticks in his memory? Didn't he have Roget's thesaurus at hand when scribing his missive? And why, may I ask, does EVERY SINGLE FEMALE in his book have to be half-naked, naked, or naked and frolicking in the out of doors? His use of sex and sex scenes is totally unnecessary to the plot. Shandril Shessair certainly shares this exhibitionistic tendency, dropping her clothes at any given moment. I have no problem with sex or nudity in literature as long as they add, not detract from the plot. In this case they're just there obviously to give his 11yo target market wet dreams. Then again, that's Ed's target market so I guess I shouldn't compare him to Tolstoy or anyone, eh. Of course, these nubile, oversexed, uninhibited young temptresses all fall in love with Ed's alter ego Elminster, who happens to be 900+ years old. (Read the Temptation of Elminster - a book that has NO plot - but is good for a laugh and you will see what I mean. And while you're at it - look at the artwork of Elminster on the cover and then flip to the inner back cover of the book and check it against Ed's photo. Do you see a SIMILARITY??) Too bad Ed didn't include pictures to go with his books...then they might actually be worth the money.

spiritwarrior -------------------- And you know that was another book I was wondering about, Spellfire. I know now not to go near it. It always seems Greenwood gets the best cover pictures to his books (I know, I know don't judge a book by...) cuz Spellfires' cover looked great and that's how I remember seeing it.

i guess its too late for me.. bah! one of the worst books ive read was spellfire.. and wasted 100 bucks on that trash . at least the book pages were nice

[SpiritWarrior]

100 bucks?!