level 8 questions

wellard · 07-09-2006, 10:23 AM

Q1. I just got my arse kicked (again) on level 8 the underground forest. Those priests and company (whatever they are called) seem to be too hard for a solo player. Are there any tricks / tacticts that help? has anyone completed it solo?

Q2. The dragon in the level 8 tower, Tristaistertema, with 5830 hp. All you get is 500xp for killing him solo -- ppffffft!!! is that the most effort for least award in the game [img]graemlins/heee.gif[/img] or is there a quest to kill him that I am missing out on?

robertthebard · 07-09-2006, 11:25 AM

1. They are hard, and plentiful. However, if you can keep them to a couple at a time, they are also beatable. However, I'd want to have a few levels under my belt, and a decent AB/weapon to fight them with.

2. Z had to adjust the xp slider, as it was too easy to get to lvl 20+ from the get go. If you are multi classed, and not human/half elf, you will take a 20% hit on xp too, if your levels are more than one point apart too, so that may be part of the problem. Not sure.

Ziroc · 07-09-2006, 12:12 PM

I'll be lowering toughness. I know they are way to hard for level 8. I'll make it to where you can solo the area though.

Mozenwrathe · 07-09-2006, 10:52 PM

Forget lowering the toughness, raise the XP on them. *grins wickedly* I'd be more than happy to have my arse handed to me on a platter if I knew the rewards were great enough. To be honest, Ziroc, I've stated repeatedly that Level Eight (The Underground Forest) makes Level Twelve (Cult Of The Dragon) look positively sissy. And to be honest, it does. I cannot take a character lower than 20 levels with really good equipment down into Level Eight and hope to slay anything. With Level Twelve, however, there are creatures for just about every level of character to face.

To be honest, you may want to up the difficulty on Level Twelve by three "notches" and tone down the difficulty on Level Eight by a similar three "notches." Each "notch" being a level of power (such as 7 levels of fighter vs. 10 levels of fighter.) I think that would even it up a little. If naught else, it'd make Level Eight more popular to venture through. As it stands, you NEED a party or a topped out character to take on Level Eight and live. I haven't seen too many players go through Level Eight with anything less than 30 levels under their belt.

Tristaistertema - thought that dragon was a girl? As well, the XP thing with Trist has been one of those ongoing discussions: "dragon XP higher?" (I'll need to find the link shortly.) I figure you (Ziroc) are still working out how best to solve that issue so I'm not going to rehash everything. (Besides, that is what that link will be for.)

http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...=000868#000000

http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/cg...c;f=8;t=000809

(Yep, those are the two topics about the dragons from months ago. Has all the mutterings, grumblings, and rantings by me you'd ever need on our scaly friends.)

[ 07-09-2006, 10:53 PM: Message edited by: Mozenwrathe ]

Ziroc · 07-10-2006, 02:26 AM

No, the balance has to be right. I gotta make the level 8 mobs easier.. Then update on down the levels..

You may love it being hard, but many will find it too hard and quit.

wellard · 07-10-2006, 04:14 AM

Skimmed over the links Mozenwrathe and it follows a similar thread I had in the NWN forum a few years ago about Dragons in the game. My gripe then (not this module) seems similar to yours mate that Dragons do not get the respect they deserve in NWN. I guess it harks back to the old paper and dice days but Dragons (even old/young ones) should be uber characters.

I understand that the sliding scale of XP makes it hard to consistently value a Dragon kill but maybe throw in a few XP for the retrieval of some family treasure (I’m thinking that guest house in level eight) could be the go, nothing to fancy.

robertthebard · 07-10-2006, 04:18 AM

I always found lvl 8 humbling, right about the time chars really need it. Just when they think they are the baddest char in Undermountain, they come off of a fight that would leave you feeling that way, right into lvl 8. Bang!! I've gotten through lvl 8 with a median lvl 25 char, and that's not too unreasonable, I think, if you've done the Haunted Isle, which you can get to from lvl 4, although I don't recommend that for the faint of heart...Combing the first 7 lvls, and off shoots, you can easily reach that median by lvl 8, and they are tough, but not impossible. Personally, I'd leave it, but that is a valid point; some people may find it too difficult.

Greything · 07-10-2006, 08:59 AM

I would go along with robertthebard on not reducing the toughness of level 8.

Yes it is tough for anyone running down through the levels but it's a good shock to the system and stops overconfidence.

Perhaps putting an amulet of clearing (is there one there now?) in the lvl 8 store for those who decide they want to avoid confrontation and sneak through would solve any issues.

As it stands level 8 is a good test for any level of character.

Mozenwrathe · 07-12-2006, 08:09 PM

What Level Eight (The Underground Forest) store are you refering to? I have never found an actual store to purchase items down there previously. If there is one, I would love to know the quadrant it can be located in. If naught else, I want to eventually have a listing of where to find all the stores currently inside of the module.

The issue about the experience points doled out when a dragon was defeated was contested a few times out as well. There have been numerous suggestions to remedy the 600 XP cap currently on all creatures in relation to how much dragons ought be worth. I could bring up the possibilities again, but that's up to you all to decide. The same would go for dragon treasures.

The difficulty of Level Eight in relation to the rewards in my opinion does not add up. Then again, as a "professional hoarder" I go for maximum cash value, rather than challenging my character concepts. After all, I am still quite the novice when it comes to building characters - even when I have a theme going for them. There are a lot of really good items on Level Eight to be assured, but when I weigh the challenge of getting those items against their gold-based worth, I find myself avoiding the level unless I have a faily high level character OR actually travelling in a party (which happpens very rarely for me).

And I am still certain that dragon is a "she."

[ 07-12-2006, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: Mozenwrathe ]

T-D-C · 07-12-2006, 09:18 PM

The store is near the treestump IIRC.

07-09-2006, 10:23 AM	#1
wellard Dracolisk Join Date: November 1, 2002 Location: Australia ..... G\'day! Posts: 6,123	Q1. I just got my arse kicked (again) on level 8 the underground forest. Those priests and company (whatever they are called) seem to be too hard for a solo player. Are there any tricks / tacticts that help? has anyone completed it solo? Q2. The dragon in the level 8 tower, Tristaistertema, with 5830 hp. All you get is 500xp for killing him solo -- ppffffft!!! is that the most effort for least award in the game [img]graemlins/heee.gif[/img] or is there a quest to kill him that I am missing out on? __________________ fossils - natures way of laughing at creationists for over 3 billion years

07-09-2006, 11:25 AM	#2
robertthebard Xanathar Thieves Guild Join Date: March 17, 2001 Location: Wichita, KS USA Age: 62 Posts: 4,537	1. They are hard, and plentiful. However, if you can keep them to a couple at a time, they are also beatable. However, I'd want to have a few levels under my belt, and a decent AB/weapon to fight them with. 2. Z had to adjust the xp slider, as it was too easy to get to lvl 20+ from the get go. If you are multi classed, and not human/half elf, you will take a 20% hit on xp too, if your levels are more than one point apart too, so that may be part of the problem. Not sure. __________________ To those we have lost; May your spirits fly free. Interesting read, one of my blogs.

07-09-2006, 12:12 PM	#3
Ziroc Ironworks Webmaster *Bow to the Meow* Join Date: January 4, 2001 Location: Lakeland, Florida Age: 52 Posts: 11,727	I'll be lowering toughness. I know they are way to hard for level 8. I'll make it to where you can solo the area though. __________________ Ironworks Gaming's Official Youtube Gaming Channel

07-09-2006, 10:52 PM	#4
Mozenwrathe Symbol of Cyric Join Date: January 31, 2005 Location: Mississauga (Toronto), Ontario, CANADA Age: 49 Posts: 1,214	Forget lowering the toughness, raise the XP on them. grins wickedly I'd be more than happy to have my arse handed to me on a platter if I knew the rewards were great enough. To be honest, Ziroc, I've stated repeatedly that Level Eight (The Underground Forest) makes Level Twelve (Cult Of The Dragon) look positively sissy. And to be honest, it does. I cannot take a character lower than 20 levels with really good equipment down into Level Eight and hope to slay anything. With Level Twelve, however, there are creatures for just about every level of character to face. To be honest, you may want to up the difficulty on Level Twelve by three "notches" and tone down the difficulty on Level Eight by a similar three "notches." Each "notch" being a level of power (such as 7 levels of fighter vs. 10 levels of fighter.) I think that would even it up a little. If naught else, it'd make Level Eight more popular to venture through. As it stands, you NEED a party or a topped out character to take on Level Eight and live. I haven't seen too many players go through Level Eight with anything less than 30 levels under their belt. Tristaistertema - thought that dragon was a girl? As well, the XP thing with Trist has been one of those ongoing discussions: "dragon XP higher?" (I'll need to find the link shortly.) I figure you (Ziroc) are still working out how best to solve that issue so I'm not going to rehash everything. (Besides, that is what that link will be for.) http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...=000868#000000 http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/cg...c;f=8;t=000809 (Yep, those are the two topics about the dragons from months ago. Has all the mutterings, grumblings, and rantings by me you'd ever need on our scaly friends.) [ 07-09-2006, 10:53 PM: Message edited by: Mozenwrathe ] __________________ There are no paths to power which are not fraught with confrontation. No matter the battle, a lesson must be won. In the end, the path shall fade into nothingness for the one walking it, but may go on for eternity for those whom choose to follow. One must know their own footsteps before taking that first step, or instead of choosing your battles, your battles will choose you.

07-10-2006, 02:26 AM	#5
Ziroc Ironworks Webmaster *Bow to the Meow* Join Date: January 4, 2001 Location: Lakeland, Florida Age: 52 Posts: 11,727	No, the balance has to be right. I gotta make the level 8 mobs easier.. Then update on down the levels.. You may love it being hard, but many will find it too hard and quit. __________________ Ironworks Gaming's Official Youtube Gaming Channel

07-10-2006, 04:14 AM	#6
wellard Dracolisk Join Date: November 1, 2002 Location: Australia ..... G\'day! Posts: 6,123	Skimmed over the links Mozenwrathe and it follows a similar thread I had in the NWN forum a few years ago about Dragons in the game. My gripe then (not this module) seems similar to yours mate that Dragons do not get the respect they deserve in NWN. I guess it harks back to the old paper and dice days but Dragons (even old/young ones) should be uber characters. I understand that the sliding scale of XP makes it hard to consistently value a Dragon kill but maybe throw in a few XP for the retrieval of some family treasure (I’m thinking that guest house in level eight) could be the go, nothing to fancy. __________________ fossils - natures way of laughing at creationists for over 3 billion years

07-10-2006, 04:18 AM	#7
robertthebard Xanathar Thieves Guild Join Date: March 17, 2001 Location: Wichita, KS USA Age: 62 Posts: 4,537	I always found lvl 8 humbling, right about the time chars really need it. Just when they think they are the baddest char in Undermountain, they come off of a fight that would leave you feeling that way, right into lvl 8. Bang!! I've gotten through lvl 8 with a median lvl 25 char, and that's not too unreasonable, I think, if you've done the Haunted Isle, which you can get to from lvl 4, although I don't recommend that for the faint of heart...Combing the first 7 lvls, and off shoots, you can easily reach that median by lvl 8, and they are tough, but not impossible. Personally, I'd leave it, but that is a valid point; some people may find it too difficult. __________________ To those we have lost; May your spirits fly free. Interesting read, one of my blogs.

07-10-2006, 08:59 AM	#8
Greything Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: June 25, 2004 Location: UK Posts: 633	I would go along with robertthebard on not reducing the toughness of level 8. Yes it is tough for anyone running down through the levels but it's a good shock to the system and stops overconfidence. Perhaps putting an amulet of clearing (is there one there now?) in the lvl 8 store for those who decide they want to avoid confrontation and sneak through would solve any issues. As it stands level 8 is a good test for any level of character.

07-12-2006, 08:09 PM	#9
Mozenwrathe Symbol of Cyric Join Date: January 31, 2005 Location: Mississauga (Toronto), Ontario, CANADA Age: 49 Posts: 1,214	What Level Eight (The Underground Forest) store are you refering to? I have never found an actual store to purchase items down there previously. If there is one, I would love to know the quadrant it can be located in. If naught else, I want to eventually have a listing of where to find all the stores currently inside of the module. The issue about the experience points doled out when a dragon was defeated was contested a few times out as well. There have been numerous suggestions to remedy the 600 XP cap currently on all creatures in relation to how much dragons ought be worth. I could bring up the possibilities again, but that's up to you all to decide. The same would go for dragon treasures. The difficulty of Level Eight in relation to the rewards in my opinion does not add up. Then again, as a "professional hoarder" I go for maximum cash value, rather than challenging my character concepts. After all, I am still quite the novice when it comes to building characters - even when I have a theme going for them. There are a lot of really good items on Level Eight to be assured, but when I weigh the challenge of getting those items against their gold-based worth, I find myself avoiding the level unless I have a faily high level character OR actually travelling in a party (which happpens very rarely for me). And I am still certain that dragon is a "she." [ 07-12-2006, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: Mozenwrathe ] __________________ There are no paths to power which are not fraught with confrontation. No matter the battle, a lesson must be won. In the end, the path shall fade into nothingness for the one walking it, but may go on for eternity for those whom choose to follow. One must know their own footsteps before taking that first step, or instead of choosing your battles, your battles will choose you.

07-12-2006, 09:18 PM	#10
T-D-C Ironworks Moderator Join Date: October 26, 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia Age: 44 Posts: 4,416	The store is near the treestump IIRC. __________________

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