Give me Gael Serran over Athkatla

[Wyvern]

On a recent journey to the markets of computer games I purchased BG2. Being very snowed in I decided to load the puppy up and see what was what.
What is a zillion and some icons. Icons for this Icons for that Icons for things we'll never know or understand. Now I don't mind a useful little icon now and then but so many really hurts my head. Yes, I know that if I am patient long enough and have my cursor placed nicely over the icon in question it will eventually decide that I want to know what it means, but that doesn't make me like them any better. What's wrong with a nice little spell list? Maybe it isn't as pretty as a nice set of icons but I prefer the instant info over the art value.
Okay, I've had my little rant and I will probably go back and play some more BG2 but know that while I am doing so I will be often reminded of how much more I like W&W.

Wyv

Go for the eyes, Boo!

Had you played BG2 first you may have been thinking the other way round. Give it time. The W&W interface is very strange to start with but after an hour or so play becomes quite user friendly I am sure BG2 will be the same. I remember Dungeon keeper were you had to click on certain symbols to make your spells which ment much looking at the manual and carfully assembling your spell. This seemed very convoluted for the first few time but after a while you could do it without the manual and it seemed to make perfect scence.

What I hate about BG/IW/P:T and the other Bioware Infinity Engine games is the simple fact that I couldn't get my party to walk where I want them to, efficiently, decently.

W&W and its ilk are like: I wanna go there, I press keyboard button, I go there. I right-click, I go there. Everyone goes there. I happy.

BG/IW/etc is: I want all of you to go there. Click. Now go. Shuffle shuffle, clop-clop-clop-clop. My fighter turns left, my ranger turns right, my rogue goes slinking into the shadows SOMEWHERE, my priest goes to visit the temple first, and my mage is blocked by whatever. 5 minutes later, I manage to get everyone where I want them to. Icewind Dale was so excruciatingly like this that I never completed it.

Thank goodness for first-person RPGs.

i recon BG1+2 are crap, the only couple of games that have achieved this view is diablo and fallout. there the only games that i would play that are in this sorta view and crappyness. when BG came out i expected it to be awsome, but i got it and was disapointed, very disapointed. W&W is the best RPG i played in a while.

[carg]

Wyv,
I have BG2 for a while now, and still am playing W&W. I guess I got a bit fed up with the system after playing too many Bioware games. But I suspect I'll get around to it.
I can imagine the amount of icons being a bit daunty in the beginning, especially if you haven't played BG1 or Icewind Dale. There's one hint I have for you: look at the game options and adjust marker (?) feedback: the option in which the speed of the fly-by hints is set. If you set this to low the hints will appear a lot quicker, which has helped me a lot. I never really used the quick reference chart for spells though.
When you get used to it the BG system actually works faster than W&W, but I guess it will take a while with such a large amount of spells. (I estimate 4x as many as W&W.)

Sure hope we'll keep seeing you on this forum though!

[gaunty]

I do not like the wondering crowd either, you
know some people just can't go past a gas station or a bath room without using them. that is what I get in BGI and II. BGII is faster paced, but there are way to many quest
opertunities. get a quest, go down the street, get grabed and put on another, then another. to many to fast to inter woven.

[Sazerac]

Wyv,

Please let me know if you like it after playing it for a while. I'll take your word on the game over anyone else I've heard, including industry reviews.

Thanks,
Sazerac

[Archimedes]

If we're going to be doing this comparison I'd argue that many of the clicks necessary in Gael Serran are very non-intuitive (Using items? Hello...are there any devs listening? What were you thinking)? I'd also argue that forcing people to stick have a maximum of six saved games when it is very easy to make mistakes that prevent you from finishing various quests or even the game,and not finding out about it until much later (when you might have already used up all your saved games) was not the swiftest move they might have made.

Mind you, I am enjoying the game, despite it's flaws. I just feel that there are problems on both sides. There were way too many icons in BGII. While that helps the player in the long run (fewer mouse-clicks), it does make it much harder to pick up at the start. Keep in mind, however, that a full game of BGII, including the side-quests, will oftne run around 300 hours of play time. Chances are you'll be very familiar with the icons before you're very far into the game.

[Wyvern]

Gee - lots of interesting remarks, advice, hints and other goodies too! Thanks everyone!!!

Well, I have been playing BG2 for a while longer (due to the excessive amount of snow) and while there are some things I do like about the game, I still like W&W better. I miss the fun of steering my ship around the enchanted sea and swimming underwater.
There are too many quests going on all in a once. Start one and get grabbed for 2 more before you've managed to do anything. I'm finding the party options frustrating. I don't want to keep being presented with more people that CAN join me if only I will get rid of one of the others. And I don't understand why Yoshimbo (or whatever his name is) is the only character that seems to get skill increases. I haven't been able to increase anyone's weapon proficiency beyond 2 star-thingies. (shaking head) I'm spending far to much time trying to sort out all the spells and since you have to memorize them before you can use them I run into situations where we memorized the wrong things.
Is there a LIGHT spell to brighten up the dungeons without resetting the computer?? (I hate that.)
IS there a time limit in this game? For some reason it bothers me that the saves are all marked with current game playing time and distances are measured in days or hours. While you can rest in this game how many spells you have to memorize will effect how long you have rested so if I was trying to rest, learn spells and pass away the night I can still end up waking up just as night time is beginning all over again. This timing element worries me when we're far away from a decent merchant (is that an oxymoron?) and our inventory is loaded to the max and we need fire arrows or such for trolls.
I stumbled into a dungeon and my main character got level drained which seems to continue going down and down and down. The helpful hints that pop up now and then say drink a potion, cast a spell. I don't have either and am a long way from town.
Anyone recall the sewer pipe puzzle?? I got all the items but I wasn't able to figure out how you are supposed to put them in the pipes. I ended up dropping them in front of the pipes and turning the dials and got a whole lot of nothing for it.

I can see why this has been a very popular game but I'm still not convinced it's for me. While I am grateful for the lack of Sebastio speeches having to be repeated to everyone individually, I'm not sure I like all the conversations and all the multiple choice responses.
I think I will go ride my horse for a while and watch the dragon fly through the sky!

Sazerac - try a demo and see if you like the style of the game. (wish I had done that myself)

Wyv