Chahopek

Dragonshadow · 05-19-2003, 08:53 AM

Possible spoilers
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.
.
.
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The black dragon outside the yuanti place. I discovered that electricity hurts him , but we don't have tha many spells. And two of mine died, wich made things hard when i was flung into the final battle. I was at my computor for an hour, doing my homework and killing a dragon.
Any quick and easy ways to kill him that DO N OT INVOLVE CHEATS.
Cheers
DS

Micah Foehammer · 05-19-2003, 09:16 AM

There are no "quick and easy" ways to kill him - face it, that dragon is tough.

Here are some suggestions to make your job easier:

Prebuff your party using Hope, Luck (on frontline fighters as it increases the chance of a critical hit!), Stoneskin, Haste (especially the multi-character version), PFE 10', Prayer, Recitation, Bless, and Aid. Protection from ACID is a must!! Add any spells that will protect your party from FEAR effects - chaotic commands? Keep several remove fear spells ready in case somebody fails a save.

Summon up a HORDE of monsters, place them between the Guardians spawn point and your party. Hold off on casting the improved haste spell until AFTER the monsters are spawned!

Use your toughest tank (most hit points) to actually summon the monster, as the Gurdian will make him his NUMBER ONE TARGET.

Hit the Guardian with as many Lower Resistance spells as you can!!! 3 seems to work well. That will make it possible for your spells to have a better chance of actually doing damage.

Don't target the Guardian with acid spells - he is immune to his own attack form IIRC. Try to avoid area effect spells as the splash effect will hit your summoned monsters, use magic missiles, force missiles, ice lance, chromatic orb - etc.

Keep a steady stream of summoned monsters coming - the idea is to try to chip away at the Guardian and keep him away from your party if at all possible.
If you can keep him away from your characters, you are WAY ahead of the game and can then use ranged weapons.

Have your cleric ready with HEAL or MASS HEAL spells. Don't let a front line fighter get too low on hit points; heal them FAST or it will be too late.

Actually there MIGHT be an easy way to do this, but you need to be lucky. After hitting the Guardian with the Lower Resistance spells, try hitting him with a HARM spell!!!!!! If you succeed, the battle is over as it will lower his hitpoints to virtually NOTHING (1d4 IIRC) and a front line tank can then dispatch him and stand on his skull and proclaim himself DRAGON slayer!!!! I haven't actually done this myself, but in THEORY it should be feasible UNLESS the Guardian has innate resistance to Necromantic spells.

Some people have also claimed that they have successfully killed the Guardian with Distintegrate, but the Guardian DOES get a saving throw AND it has to bypass his spell resistance.

Good Luck

Dragonshadow · 05-19-2003, 10:36 AM

I did manage to kill him, like I said earlier, but I had none of these spells, my wizard is level 12/13, cleric 14/15, and I couldn't find anywhere to buy them.
I never want to see another dragon again

Magness · 05-19-2003, 11:46 AM

Unfortunately, Dragonshadow, the lack of upper level magic scrolls is a serious problem with IWD2 and is why sorcerors are vastly superior to wizards.

It is vulnerable to electricity. But it's immune to acid and IIRC it's also immune to fire.

I like using archers to turn him into a pincushion. Use your best arrows. It's a good way to keep trying to do damage to the dragon without having to be in range of the dragon's melee attacks or its panic aura.

If you have the +2 returning hammer (that does +1d6 electrical damage), that's another good ranged weapon for whacking the dragon.

The Guardian is probably the single toughest single opponent in IWD2. Don't feel bad that it hurt you bad. It took me quite a while the first time as well.

Micah Foehammer · 05-19-2003, 01:58 PM

Magness is right that the timing of access to mage spells can be a major problem. You OFTEN have a mage running around, at least in the early stages of the game, with unused spell slots simply due to lack of access to spells of the appropriate level. Actually you can COUNT on not having all your spell slots full at some portions of the game.

However, with the possible exception of the MASS HEAL spell, which is high level clerical and may not be available to your cleric at the time you confront the Guardian - not sure, ALL of the other spells listed were available either to my cleric or to my mage PRIOR to fighting the Guardian.

There should have been several resources for spells prior to that fight:

At least 8 come to mind immediately<

The female wizard in Targos
The druids in the Shaergarne Ford area
Zack Boysenberry
The woman in charge of the Wandering Village - Suoma?
Lihma's Scroll Case - she's not a merchant but she had a LOT of spells in her scroll case - and you had to kill her to solve the missing children quest
Orrick's successor - I am TERRIBLE at names but I think he is actually Conlan's son, in Kuldahar
The Underdark merchants
The Monks in the Monastery - first room on the RIGHT

plus I tackled the Guardian AFTER I had cleaned out the Yuan-ti's in the temple and looted the treasure room which had a number of nice spells.

I might be wrong about one or two of these, and might have missed a couple of others. The point is that access to spells was NOT an issue when I fought the Guardian. EVERY mage spell listed was available to me, and the ONLY clerical spell I am not sure about was Mass Heal. Sorry you didn't have better luck finding scrolls or tackling the Guardian - but I know that there are a LOT of places to acquire them by the time you have reached that portion of the game.

Micah Foehammer · 05-19-2003, 05:41 PM

Just as an afterthought:

I'm assuming that you have put enough points in the intelligence stat for your wizard and wisdom stat for your cleric to enable those characters to cast high level spells. You need those stats to be 10 + x in order to cast xth level spells (i.e. you need a 19 to cast 9th level spells).

BTW, Mass Heal is an 8th level clerical spell which a 15th lvl cleric should be able to cast.

pritchke · 05-20-2003, 10:53 AM

My favorite spell to use against him was Call Lightning. My druid was very useful in this battle. To me this was the hardest battle in the game.

Dragonshadow · 05-20-2003, 03:09 PM

My wizards int. is 21, and the clerics wis. is 19.
It wasn't that I didn't have a few higer level wizard spell, but I wasn't high enough level to use them.
I did have a nice mordenkien sword spell.
After the fight after the guardan, I got a level up on most of my dudes, and had all the good spells, but to late by then so I got rather pi$$ed off.

Micah Foehammer · 05-20-2003, 03:16 PM

Well, it would have been nice to kill him off for bragging rights. [img]smile.gif[/img]

In hindsight, the xp that you lose isn't all THAT much and the acid resistance is probably one of the least useful (Unless you LIKE dumping acid storm in the middle of your party .. hehehe).

Don't sweat it. I personally thought the Holy Avenger / Lost Followers was one of the toughest battles in the game - at least on normal difficulty. The Guardian didn't give me a lot of trouble but then I had some troubles with areas that people say they breezed through.

pritchke · 05-20-2003, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Micah Foehammer:
Well, it would have been nice to kill him off for bragging rights. [img]smile.gif[/img]

In hindsight, the xp that you lose isn't all THAT much and the acid resistance is probably one of the least useful (Unless you LIKE dumping acid storm in the middle of your party .. hehehe).

Don't sweat it. I personally thought the Holy Avenger / Lost Followers was one of the toughest battles in the game - at least on normal difficulty. The Guardian didn't give me a lot of trouble but then I had some troubles with areas that people say they breezed through.

It could have to do with different characters. While I found my druid useful in the battle with the dragon I found my Monk to be almost useless except as a distraction for the Dragon to focus on. Than again thinking about it my Monk wasn't so useless in that battle afterall.

05-19-2003, 09:16 AM	#2
Micah Foehammer Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: November 15, 2001 Location: Asheville, NC Posts: 3,253	There are no "quick and easy" ways to kill him - face it, that dragon is tough. Here are some suggestions to make your job easier: Prebuff your party using Hope, Luck (on frontline fighters as it increases the chance of a critical hit!), Stoneskin, Haste (especially the multi-character version), PFE 10', Prayer, Recitation, Bless, and Aid. Protection from ACID is a must!! Add any spells that will protect your party from FEAR effects - chaotic commands? Keep several remove fear spells ready in case somebody fails a save. Summon up a HORDE of monsters, place them between the Guardians spawn point and your party. Hold off on casting the improved haste spell until AFTER the monsters are spawned! Use your toughest tank (most hit points) to actually summon the monster, as the Gurdian will make him his NUMBER ONE TARGET. Hit the Guardian with as many Lower Resistance spells as you can!!! 3 seems to work well. That will make it possible for your spells to have a better chance of actually doing damage. Don't target the Guardian with acid spells - he is immune to his own attack form IIRC. Try to avoid area effect spells as the splash effect will hit your summoned monsters, use magic missiles, force missiles, ice lance, chromatic orb - etc. Keep a steady stream of summoned monsters coming - the idea is to try to chip away at the Guardian and keep him away from your party if at all possible. If you can keep him away from your characters, you are WAY ahead of the game and can then use ranged weapons. Have your cleric ready with HEAL or MASS HEAL spells. Don't let a front line fighter get too low on hit points; heal them FAST or it will be too late. Actually there MIGHT be an easy way to do this, but you need to be lucky. After hitting the Guardian with the Lower Resistance spells, try hitting him with a HARM spell!!!!!! If you succeed, the battle is over as it will lower his hitpoints to virtually NOTHING (1d4 IIRC) and a front line tank can then dispatch him and stand on his skull and proclaim himself DRAGON slayer!!!! I haven't actually done this myself, but in THEORY it should be feasible UNLESS the Guardian has innate resistance to Necromantic spells. Some people have also claimed that they have successfully killed the Guardian with Distintegrate, but the Guardian DOES get a saving throw AND it has to bypass his spell resistance. Good Luck __________________ “Every tavern’s an opportunity, I say.”

05-19-2003, 01:58 PM	#5
Micah Foehammer Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: November 15, 2001 Location: Asheville, NC Posts: 3,253	Magness is right that the timing of access to mage spells can be a major problem. You OFTEN have a mage running around, at least in the early stages of the game, with unused spell slots simply due to lack of access to spells of the appropriate level. Actually you can COUNT on not having all your spell slots full at some portions of the game. However, with the possible exception of the MASS HEAL spell, which is high level clerical and may not be available to your cleric at the time you confront the Guardian - not sure, ALL of the other spells listed were available either to my cleric or to my mage PRIOR to fighting the Guardian. There should have been several resources for spells prior to that fight: At least 8 come to mind immediately< The female wizard in Targos The druids in the Shaergarne Ford area Zack Boysenberry The woman in charge of the Wandering Village - Suoma? Lihma's Scroll Case - she's not a merchant but she had a LOT of spells in her scroll case - and you had to kill her to solve the missing children quest Orrick's successor - I am TERRIBLE at names but I think he is actually Conlan's son, in Kuldahar The Underdark merchants The Monks in the Monastery - first room on the RIGHT plus I tackled the Guardian AFTER I had cleaned out the Yuan-ti's in the temple and looted the treasure room which had a number of nice spells. I might be wrong about one or two of these, and might have missed a couple of others. The point is that access to spells was NOT an issue when I fought the Guardian. EVERY mage spell listed was available to me, and the ONLY clerical spell I am not sure about was Mass Heal. Sorry you didn't have better luck finding scrolls or tackling the Guardian - but I know that there are a LOT of places to acquire them by the time you have reached that portion of the game. __________________ “Every tavern’s an opportunity, I say.”

05-19-2003, 05:41 PM	#6
Micah Foehammer Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: November 15, 2001 Location: Asheville, NC Posts: 3,253	Just as an afterthought: I'm assuming that you have put enough points in the intelligence stat for your wizard and wisdom stat for your cleric to enable those characters to cast high level spells. You need those stats to be 10 + x in order to cast xth level spells (i.e. you need a 19 to cast 9th level spells). BTW, Mass Heal is an 8th level clerical spell which a 15th lvl cleric should be able to cast. __________________ “Every tavern’s an opportunity, I say.”

05-20-2003, 03:16 PM	#9
Micah Foehammer Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: November 15, 2001 Location: Asheville, NC Posts: 3,253	Well, it would have been nice to kill him off for bragging rights. [img]smile.gif[/img] In hindsight, the xp that you lose isn't all THAT much and the acid resistance is probably one of the least useful (Unless you LIKE dumping acid storm in the middle of your party .. hehehe). Don't sweat it. I personally thought the Holy Avenger / Lost Followers was one of the toughest battles in the game - at least on normal difficulty. The Guardian didn't give me a lot of trouble but then I had some troubles with areas that people say they breezed through. __________________ “Every tavern’s an opportunity, I say.”

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05-19-2003, 08:53 AM	#1
Dragonshadow Quth-Maren Join Date: February 17, 2003 Location: Portsmouth Age: 34 Posts: 4,145	Possible spoilers . . . . . The black dragon outside the yuanti place. I discovered that electricity hurts him , but we don't have tha many spells. And two of mine died, wich made things hard when i was flung into the final battle. I was at my computor for an hour, doing my homework and killing a dragon. Any quick and easy ways to kill him that DO N OT INVOLVE CHEATS. Cheers DS

05-19-2003, 10:36 AM	#3
Dragonshadow Quth-Maren Join Date: February 17, 2003 Location: Portsmouth Age: 34 Posts: 4,145	I did manage to kill him, like I said earlier, but I had none of these spells, my wizard is level 12/13, cleric 14/15, and I couldn't find anywhere to buy them. I never want to see another dragon again

05-19-2003, 11:46 AM	#4
Magness Quintesson Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Manchester, NH, USA Posts: 1,025	Unfortunately, Dragonshadow, the lack of upper level magic scrolls is a serious problem with IWD2 and is why sorcerors are vastly superior to wizards. It is vulnerable to electricity. But it's immune to acid and IIRC it's also immune to fire. I like using archers to turn him into a pincushion. Use your best arrows. It's a good way to keep trying to do damage to the dragon without having to be in range of the dragon's melee attacks or its panic aura. If you have the +2 returning hammer (that does +1d6 electrical damage), that's another good ranged weapon for whacking the dragon. The Guardian is probably the single toughest single opponent in IWD2. Don't feel bad that it hurt you bad. It took me quite a while the first time as well.

05-20-2003, 10:53 AM	#7
pritchke Bastet - Egyptian Cat Goddess Join Date: September 5, 2001 Location: Calgary, AB Age: 49 Posts: 3,491	My favorite spell to use against him was Call Lightning. My druid was very useful in this battle. To me this was the hardest battle in the game.

05-20-2003, 03:09 PM	#8
Dragonshadow Quth-Maren Join Date: February 17, 2003 Location: Portsmouth Age: 34 Posts: 4,145	My wizards int. is 21, and the clerics wis. is 19. It wasn't that I didn't have a few higer level wizard spell, but I wasn't high enough level to use them. I did have a nice mordenkien sword spell. After the fight after the guardan, I got a level up on most of my dudes, and had all the good spells, but to late by then so I got rather pi$$ed off.

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