Wizardslayer alterations

[Marant]

I know now that wizard slayers are rather pants. Their bonuses nowhere near balance out their negative sides. However, I reckon that simply increasing their magic resistance to 2 to 3% per level would be much more of a compensation, and make playing the character worth it. The current 1% per level is pathetic, especially in light of the fact that it's impossible to up your resistances using items.

How would I go about altering this? And could I do it on my game in progress or would it need a restart?

Also, how would you alter it so that non-humans can dual class (is it possible?) I've never understood why they shouldn't be allowed to.

I'm not overly familiar with altering programs etc. so simply phrased answers please!

[K2Grey]

Well, http://www.pocketplane.net/mambo/ind...d=92&Itemid=77

There's a mod where one part changes the wizard slayer to 8% start MR, +4% MR with level. WeiDU mods are generally split for each add-on, so you can add just that part. I don't know of any other WS enhancement mods, nor do I know how to change it to 3% per level. I would assume that the editor for classes would be NearInfinity or something like that, but don't know how to use it. This would not require a restart, I think. If it did, you could probably just use Shadowkeeper to change your WS's MR% to whatever would normally be calculated for that level.

BTW, there are ways to make wizard slayers own against mages [img]smile.gif[/img] You'd need to pick up a druid for the heavy stuff, though.

I don't think its possible to make non-humans dual class. Maybe you could pull it off with Shadowkeeper. There is no particular logical rationale why non-humans can't dual class, or why humans can't multi, but 2e D&D is full of that kind of stuff and what's even more annoying is when people try to defend it.

[Rataxes]

The Wizard Slayer already has the highest innate MR of any class at the ToB XP Cap. In Standard SoA/ToB there is no way to significantly increase your MR with items that Wiz Slayers cannot use, so their potential for magical defense is unsurpassed. 4% per level is ridiculous and 3% is pretty bad as well.

They are actually supposed to get 2% per level up until level 20 though, so changing the rate to this would be perfectly justified in my opinion.

[ 04-08-2005, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: Rataxes ]

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by K2Grey: Well, http://www.pocketplane.net/mambo/ind...d=92&Itemid=77

Another way of redeeming the Wizard Slayer is outlined here, though it remains to be seen if the Rebalanced WizardSlayer will be a component of the Kitanya mod, or of the Warrior Kitpack....probably the former, since interest in coding the latter seems to have waned. Pity.

Originally posted by Rataxes: The Wizard Slayer already has the highest innate MR of any class at the ToB XP Cap. In Standard SoA/ToB there is no way to significantly increase your MR with items that Wiz Slayers cannot use, so their potential for magical defense is unsurpassed.

Ummm....while your first statement is technically true (WSs do indeed have the highest innate MR), it is also completely meaningless, since your second statement is absolutely dead wrong. "There is no way to significantly increase your MR with items that WSs cannot use," my foot. Try this: Carsomyr, Cloak of Balduran, Ring of Gaxx, Kaligun's Amulet of Magic Resistance. That's 95% Magic Resistance, all from items that Wizard Slayers are not allowed to use. In fact, the only MR items that WSs are allowed to use look like crap in comparison: Shield of the Lost, Adamantine Chain+3, Sword of Balduran, and finally Enkidu's Plate, which isn't crap but you've got one heck of a long wait to get to it.
In my book, any "solution" to the problem of the Wizard Slayer that does not include correcting the items is nothing but a half-baked idea.

[K2Grey]

Wow, that Anti-Magic Aura the new Wizard Slayer has could be pretty massive. Summon 5 Mordies, send them ahead with the Wiz slayer, do Anti-magic aura and throw some darts, instantly everyone with spellcasting ability now has 100% spell failure and there's nothing that can kill the Mordies.

Of course, this is impossible to justify from a roleplaying standpoint, but it's still pretty crazy. Even anti-paladin from Tactics has problems touching many spellcasting enemies and the WS blows through all of them without a problem.

But the real problem is when the enemy, who has a cumulative spell failure of like 500%, ForceSpells stuff from script and the player looks at his message buffer in disbelief

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by K2Grey: Wow, that Anti-Magic Aura the new Wizard Slayer has could be pretty massive.

Which is precisely why it's only usable once per day per 12 levels, so for almost the entire game, a RebalWS can demolish only 1 or 2 (sets of) spellcasters per day. Compare this with a Berserker's Enrage, an Inquistor's True Sight, a Priest of Talos's Storm Shield, a Thief's Snares, etc.

Summon 5 Mordies, send them ahead with the Wiz slayer, do Anti-magic aura and throw some darts, instantly everyone with spellcasting ability now has 100% spell failure and there's nothing that can kill the Mordies.

Hmmm....good point. Maybe the Anti-Magic Aura should have a Death Spell piggybacked along with it. Although if it's just Mordies we're talking about, they're easy enough to run away from (although that's unfortunately something that no enemy is smart enough to do).

Even anti-paladin from Tactics has problems touching many spellcasting enemies and the WS blows through all of them without a problem.

As far as I know, the only thing an Anti-Paladin has trouble with is a Lich under PfMW....which is coincidentally the only thing that an Inquisitor's Dispel can't touch either. Yes, the RebalWS outshines them in this regard....but then, that's precisely what he's trained to do. Against any other type of enemy, the other Warrior classes & kits would tromp all over a RebalWS.

But the real problem is when the enemy, who has a cumulative spell failure of like 500%, ForceSpells stuff from script and the player looks at his message buffer in disbelief [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Yeah, I hear ya. Thankfully, the Anti-Magic Aura lasts 5 rounds (I think), and a scripted PfMW lasts for 4, so all the RebalWS has to do in that 5th round is survive those Horrid Wiltings, and get a couple of hits in during that 5th round, and he's got a good fighting chance.

Me like feedback. [img]smile.gif[/img] Thanks!

[Rataxes]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: quote: Originally posted by Rataxes: The Wizard Slayer already has the highest innate MR of any class at the ToB XP Cap. In Standard SoA/ToB there is no way to significantly increase your MR with items that Wiz Slayers cannot use, so their potential for magical defense is unsurpassed.

Ummm....while your first statement is technically true (WSs do indeed have the highest innate MR), it is also completely meaningless, since your second statement is absolutely dead wrong. "There is no way to significantly increase your MR with items that WSs cannot use," my foot. Try this: Carsomyr, Cloak of Balduran, Ring of Gaxx, Kaligun's Amulet of Magic Resistance. That's 95% Magic Resistance, all from items that Wizard Slayers are not allowed to use. In fact, the only MR items that WSs are allowed to use look like crap in comparison: Shield of the Lost, Adamantine Chain+3, Sword of Balduran, and finally Enkidu's Plate, which isn't crap but you've got one heck of a long wait to get to it.
In my book, any "solution" to the problem of the Wizard Slayer that does not include correcting the items is nothing but a half-baked idea. [/QUOTE]The cloak isn't available without mods and correct me if I'm wrong, but Carsomyr (an item not usuable by anyone but paladins, thieves and part thieves anyway) does not stack with anything but innate MR without the Item Upgrade mod. As I recall you were the one pointing out how overpowered the "fixed" Carsomyr was since it allowed Carsomyr to stack with other items. I think Wizard Slayers may also use the Amulet of Seldarine, which grants 10% MR.

Took a look at the re-balanced Wiz Slayer you linked to, it looks saner than most fan made kits with proper flaws instead of nonsense like "must be evil" or "cannot use any kind of weapon that no one ever uses anyway". BUT, being able to use any item with properties that could be considered to be anti-magical in nature, may make roleplaying sense, but it doesn't seem to be balanced in a game so heavily geared towards magic. I mean, the vast majority of the most powerful equipment in the game are considered so because they offer protection against magical attacks. Do I have it right that the Anti-Magic Aura would work sort of like Shatter Magic? (ie, NO way to escape the dispelling effect). Seems to me like he's a bit like a super specialized anti-magic toy you just keep out of the action in fights not involving magic (ie, pretty much none of the big ones) and pull out when you need to obliterate spellcasters in 5 seconds.

[ 04-09-2005, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Rataxes ]

[K2Grey]

SixofSpades: I was referring not so much to Contingency: PFMW or Spell Triggers, but rather to when enemies just pull out forcespells from nowhere, like Mekrath's ADHW which he casts through 5 people beating on him, or that one guy in Sewers (Gaius?) where only death can stop him from throwing that Symbol: Stun.

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by Rataxes: The cloak isn't available without mods and correct me if I'm wrong, but Carsomyr (an item not usuable by anyone but paladins, thieves and part thieves anyway) does not stack with anything but innate MR without the Item Upgrade mod. As I recall you were the one pointing out how overpowered the "fixed" Carsomyr was since it allowed Carsomyr to stack with other items. I think Wizard Slayers may also use the Amulet of Seldarine, which grants 10% MR.

The Cloak may be a mod item in BG2, but it's still just as legit as other items that got left in BG1, such as Kiel's Buckler and Spider's Bane. The original Carsomyr will indeed stack if you equip it first and then don't attack anyone with it: Just stand there holding it, and shrug off spells until the bad guy has used up all his heavy artillery, which is essentially what Magic Resistance is all about. You're right about the Amulet of the Seldarine, though, my bad. Still, for at least 75% of the game, a Wizard Slayer is virtually guaranteed to have lower MR than Keldorn, Viconia, any Monk, any Bard, or any high-level part-Thief.
There's just no excuse for barring Wizard Slayers from items based on what type of items they are, not what the items do. Compare the Soul Reaver+4 with a Potion of Magic Protection: Soul Reaver is quite obviously an anti-Warrior weapon, no Wizard would give a crap about having their THAC0 temporarily weakened--but because it's a weapon, Wizard Slayers can use it. But the Potion of Magic Protection grants +50% Magic Resistance, making it very useful indeed against spellcasters--but because it's a Potion, Wizard Slayers can't use it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this makes NO sense at all.

... being able to use any item with properties that could be considered to be anti-magical in nature, may make roleplaying sense, but it doesn't seem to be balanced in a game so heavily geared towards magic. I mean, the vast majority of the most powerful equipment in the game are considered so because they offer protection against magical attacks.

It seems to me that for every fight where a Wizard Slayer has the potential to clean house all by himself (Tolgerias & Mage), there's another where he'd be no real help at all (Golems), or at least be effective only against some of the opponents (Feral Halflings). So, sure, a Warrior using a Wand of Spell Striking may seem odd, but given the penalties when facing non-spellcasters, I think it is balanced.
Hmmm....from what I hear, the "most powerful equipment" list does indeed include protective items (Cloak of Mirroring, Shield of Harmony, Staff of the Magi), but it's actually dominated by weapons: Celestial Fury, FoA, Robe of Vecna (which I class as a weapon here as it's prized mostly for the spellcasting speed), Azuredge, MoD+2, Shield of Balduran, etc.

Do I have it right that the Anti-Magic Aura would work sort of like Shatter Magic? (ie, NO way to escape the dispelling effect).

Yep. Anything within 15 feet of the Wizard Slayer (roughly the area of effect of a Skull Trap) gets dispelled instantly, unless of course those buffs are undispellable (thank you, Improved Faldorn). Not that that means the poor spellcaster's fate is sealed: 50% spell failure is still a fighting chance of popping off a quick PfMW, and if that fails, a sensible person would drink a Potion of Invisibility and hightail it out of there.

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by K2Grey: SixofSpades: I was referring not so much to Contingency: PFMW or Spell Triggers, but rather to when enemies just pull out forcespells from nowhere, like Mekrath's ADHW which he casts through 5 people beating on him, or that one guy in Sewers (Gaius?) where only death can stop him from throwing that Symbol: Stun.

You are aware that spells cast directly from scrolls cannot be disrupted, right? Not that I've ever found a Symbol:Stun on Gaius or an ADHW on Mekrath. Yeah, I guess there's been some stupidity when writing some AIs. Pity.