How do the saving throws work?

[theholyavenger]

In my character record sheet, i always get text like:

Save vs. death= 4 (-2)
Save vs. spell= 6 (-1)

Can anyone explain to me what those numbers mean? Is it better if the numbers are smaller? For a time, my character has a saving throw vs death of -5, but now it is starting to rise as i progress through the story, is that suppose to happen?

[Raistlin Majere]

lower=better(just like ac). i cant really explain it better, but i believe dundee has explained it in the forum guidelines and FAQ

[andrewas]

Roll a d20, add in any penalties due to things like Greater malison, compare to the saving throw. If your save is lower than the roll, you pass. If not, you fail. A roll of 1 always succedes, a roll of 20 always fails regardless of the numbers. I think anyway, most gaming systems use that system so its impossible to be 100% sure of the outcome.

The text you see is the current value for your save, followed by the bonus your getting from your equipement. So if its 4 (-2) your natural save would be 6.

[Sir Exxon]

Andrewas covered it quite well, but you can also take a look in Dundee's FAQ.

[Faceman]

Originally posted by andrewas: A roll of 1 always succedes, a roll of 20 always fails

Isn't it the other way round?

Originally posted by andrewas: If your save is lower

or equal IIRC

-- giving an example to demonstrate the function --

You're just back from your last shopping trip to the Adventurer's Mart and on your way to the government district to visit your good friend Sir Keldorn, when you are waylayed by Faceman a delusional lvl 10 Necromancer who just escaped from Spellhold. The madman casts Greater Malison at you followed by Polymorph other.
You are wearing a Ring of Protection +1 and your saving throw vs Polymorph is 7.
How likely is it that you'll become a squirrel in the next seconds?
Let's break this down.
Whatever you roll (1-20) will have to match or beat your saving throw (7) after the penalties and bonuses have been added/subtracted.
So
x - 4(GreaterMal) + 1 (RingoP) > or = 7 would make you stay human (suppose you were human before).
If you roll a 14 for example this breaks down to
14 - 4 + 1 = 11 As 11>7 you stay human
Had you rolled 9 ...
9 - 4 + 1 = 6 you'd be exchanging breathcare tips with Boo right now.
To calculate what you have to roll at least to succeed just take the left side to the right
x = 7 + 4 - 1 = 10


Rather long but I hope it clarifies things more than mixing them up

EDIT just typos

[ 05-27-2003, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: Faceman ]

[andrewas]

Damnit. Muddled the signs. Happens when you play 3E (higher = better) and 2E (lower = better) at the same time.

[Rataxes]

Actually, for saves, there are no critical misses and no critical hits Having your Saving Throws at 0 will grant you complete immunity to Save-or-Else spells, unless they have penalty modifiers of course. Likewise, Saves at 21 means you will always fail your save.

[ 05-27-2003, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: Rataxes ]

[Faceman]

Are you sure about that. I know that there ARE critical misses for saving throws in 3rd Ed. I was pretty sure about it for 2nd ed too. At least it's explained that way in Dundee's Faq and at Gamebanshee.

[Rataxes]

Quite sure. Try making yourself immune to Lightning and Magic damage and go up against a Gauth with negative saves, you'll resist his disabling spells all day long.

[LennonCook]

Originally posted by Rataxes: Actually, for saves, there are no critical misses and no critical hits Having your Saving Throws at 0 will grant you complete immunity to Save-or-Else spells, unless they have penalty modifiers of course. Likewise, Saves at 21 means you will always fail your save.

Criticals *do* seem to occur with Saving thows, in my experience... blame infinity engine.