kensai dual? celestial fury?

[Cristian]

im starting a new game of bg and im going to solo a Kensai/Mage wondering when should i dual him to mage?

and were do i find celestial fury and what weapon class is it?

[Sir Exxon]

9 is a good level to dual. If you have ToB, I'd wait until lvl. 12, though, of certain reasons (which I don't remember all of at the moment [img]tongue.gif[/img] ).

Also, Celestial Fury is a Katana, and can be found in the Guarded Compound, Temple District.

[Radek]

1. You will need a human kensai with INT 17. In SoA, dual at level 9, in ToB dual at level 12 or 13.
2. Guarded Compound.
3. Katana.

[Alson]

Originally posted by Sir Exxon: 9 is a good level to dual. If you have ToB, I'd wait until lvl. 12, though, of certain reasons (which I don't remember all of at the moment [img]tongue.gif[/img] ).

Actually, with ToB, i would say level 13 is beter - the extra 1/2 attack and the bonus to saving throws are more than worth it.

[Butterfingers]

Allow me to go out on a limb.

Celery Fury is not all that great unless you have mods to make it better.

I would dare say you would be better off getting Grandmastery in staves.

Kensai melee ability with the Staff of the Magi or the Staff of Rhynn, or, in ToB, the Staff of the Ram, would cause much ownage.

[Alson]

Originally posted by Butterfingers: Allow me to go out on a limb. Celery Fury is not all that great unless you have mods to make it better.

I challenge thee!

The Celestial Fury's stun effect is amazing. True, it allows a save, but to offset, it ignores Magic Resistance. Moreover - the victim rerolls each time. With 3 or 4 attacks per round (Fury is best suited for high ApR characters. Improved Haste does wonders), the enemy will typically fail at least once -- which usually means he'll probably never recover, because you'll hit him 3 or 4 times next round (Stun, just like Time Stop, means that every strike hits automatically). In addition, Stun uses a different game "opcode" from Hold, so while every monster and its mother is immune to Hold, almost no one is immune to Stun. All the other stuff (Blindness, Lightning, yada) are just gravy.

Fury is also the big winner when it comes to "integral of utility with respect to time" -- leave Chateau Irenicus, obtain Fury. You can get it right away, and it will serve you till the very end of ToB (excluding two or three battles). Really.

All in all, i consider Fury and Ages to be the best non-Magi weapons in SoA-- including Crom, Carso and the like. Their effects are amazing, they are one handed and they are sooooo easy to obtain (not taking into account Imp Tor'Gal and Imp GC).

Besides... It's stylish.

[Angelousss]

also if you want to go pure roleplay w/ a kensai specializing in one type of weapon the cesfury and dak'kon zerth blade can be used to very effective results

[Rataxes]

Well they're both certainly very good weapons, though I feel CF is quite inferior to any weapon with elemental damage vs spellcasters. Because it will at best have a 15-20% chance of stunning any resonably powerful enemy, while any kind of elemental weapon will have a 100% chance of cutting through the stoneskins and interrupt a protected spellcaster. Besides, lets just face it, CF's damage certainly isn't phenomenal [img]tongue.gif[/img]

It's really the same thing with Flail of Ages, it has purely defensive qualities, slowing the enemy makes him weaker, but it doesn't make you stronger.

I don't exactly dislike the CF and FoA, but they are two of the most powerful weapons in the game and yet I very rarely use either of them because they don't fit in with my philosophy - I'd take stronger offense over stronger defense any day of the week, and in the same manner, I'd take stronger characters over weaker enemies any day of the week. CF and FoA don't make you stronger, they don't add to your own offensive capabilities. Instead, they weaken the offensive capabilities of your enemies, essentially making their qualities purely defensive.

Not my cup of tea, give me Crom Faeyr or Sanchuudoku instead [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 02-12-2003, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Rataxes ]

[Dundee Slaytern]

ToB Weapon Spoilers
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Hmmmm... technically speaking... both Celestial Fury +3 and the Staff of the Magi +5 are easily obtainable early in the game.

Ironically though, the battle for the SotM is far easier to win than the battle for the CFury, IMHO( I am assuming a level 12+ solo Kensai here).

Besides... anybody who claims the CFury to be more cheesy than the SotM needs a whack up the head with the Staff of the Ram +6. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

One might argue that one can cast Mislead to simulate the effects of the SotM, and I concede that this is indeed possible, but always remember that the SotM is forever re-equipable.

A Kensai->Mage will not have a lot of weapon proficiencies to play around with unless one uses the dualclass abuse exploit( which in this case, lets you play with a measly 4 points( assuming a dual at level 13) which would otherwise you will be forced to "waste" in Mage weapon proficiencies)

8 pts from the Kensai, 6 pts from the Mage. This is why most people choose to specialise in one type of weapon when it comes to Kensai->Mages.

In addition, Quarterstaves are more versatile. If you think your Celestial Fury can handle almost anything, let me assure you that my Staff of Rynn +4 can handle even more enemy types than what the CFury can. Let alone what the SotM and the SotR can... ... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

One point I will concede to the Katana though. You can dualwield them.

One point to the Quarterstaff though, it has a longer reach. Nothing like poking( or bludgeoning if it does not have crushing damage resistance( say, did you know that Undead are vulnerable to blunt damage?)) an enemy to death from the safety of behind a wall of summons.

Or through a doorway. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

In conclusion, if you do not wish to exploit what may be a bug, I recommend the Quarterstaff. Else, if you do not mind bug exploiting... get Katana and Flail Grandmastery and max out Two Weapon Style. [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 02-12-2003, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

[Butterfingers]

Oh don't get me wrong... I like the Celery Fury. It does indeed rock. But, it is not the end all beat all weapon of mass casual disembowelment. (Well, perhaps it is)

The main point I was trying to make is people become fixated on one weapon and neglect many of the others out there that are also quite good, and, have some degree of function that is fun, deadly, or otherwise interesting.

For example. A Kensai dual wielding flails would perhaps be better then a Katana Kensai. Flail of Ages, and, for people that have the Bonus Merchants, The Defender of Easthaven. (Something I have never tried personally.) Said combo would be perfect. Slow, to have some degree of crowd control, and, AC and physical damage resistance, allowing even greater crowd control.

In the same grain of argument as the Celery Fury, The Sleeper is an AMAZING weapon for people who have high APR. The sleep kicks in frequently and sleeping targets are dead targets. Pixie Prick serves the same function, as well as the Stilleto of De'Marchess. A Kensai with solid skill in daggers would be quite functional, and, with Fire Tooth, would have a very deadly and capable missle attack as well. I remember how well Zach did with Fire Tooth. With just Grandmastery, he was able to dish out the damage hard and fast. It was shockingly lethal. With the Kensai's damage and hit bonuses, I could only imagine what sort of damage output you would be capable of at range, but, I would dare venture a safe guess and say he could compete toe to toe with an Archer.

I still defend my spot on staves. With the Staff of the Magi's instant dispelling of magic, it cuts back on having to cast Breach and the like to get rid of spell protections, allowing for a lot more damage sooner. In a Kensai's hands, this would be quite handy to utterly destroy anything in the way. Also, other effects, like Invisibility, help to cover some of the Kensai's weaknesses. A Mage might not do well in combat with the SoTM, but, a Kensai would. He could put every ounce of potential and apply it with brutal results.