1e Bard

[manikus]

There is one, right? Does anyone know in what book there is information about the bard? Or Dragon Magazine number if that is where it appeared...

[Uatu]

It's in the Player's Handbook! Because it is such a strange/weird/unfair class (fighter, thief, and druid abilities (attack AND healing magic), plus more), it was put at the end of the book in an appendix.

[manikus]

D'oh! I totally knew that, too. I got the ol' hard copy out and was flipping through it and thought to myself that I had seen it many times...

Thanks for pointing it out to me.

[manikus]

I just figured out why I didn't see it in the pdf I have of the PHB, there is just white space between the psionics and outer planes appendices...
Now, I have to try and remember where I got it so I can let them know. Maybe I'll just type the section out by hand and post it somewhere instead for the whole world to use.

[Uatu]

If I have some free time, I can type it out for you perhaps...

(Guess someone didn't like bards...)

[manikus]

Too late. I have out the ol' magnifying glass and am working away at it.

I think this class will be too hard to do in DC, though one could create a class that mimiced fighters for 6 levels or so, then mimiced thieves for another 6 levels and then follow the bard table in the book. That helps balance them out in some ways, too. A first level bard is nowhere near as powerful as a 13th level anything.

[Uatu]

That is true! Still, at higher levels, the comparatively low amounts of XP needed to become a 6th level anything become small, and they should become strong enough to compare with their single-classed counterparts, I think...

It may be fairly difficult to make bards work in DC, but if we DO, that would definitely be a step in the right direction (to help Dragonlance afficionados and such, for example, add the various "high level" classes). Bards are a bit difficult in that they do have TWO prerequisite classes, after all (not just one).

But your idea of doing bards as a single class might work (as long as it is possible to not give them HD for their thief levels, etc.).

[manikus]

I was thinking about the HD issue, and reading on the AD&D newsgroup. There seems to be a split in the community as to whether they should get HD as a thief and a bard - the book (which is at home) seems to say they continue to get HD.

[Uatu]

As a thief? Hmm - I will have to check that myself - that would be a lot of hp for anyone! (They are already unfair enough in that they get HD after 2nd level of bard (regardless of their previous HD.) This would give them a maximum of 7d10 + 9d6 + 10d6 + 12 hp... or 196 hp! (To get the equivalent (sans CON bonuses), a fighter would have to reach level 44 or so, requiring about 9,000,000 XP. The maxed-out bard would only have accrued about 3,174,000 XP, on the other hand... The only detriment of the bard would be that his THAC0 is only that of a 7th level fighter, but he does have most thief abilities, up to 5th-level druid spells, and other powers, so I would say that bards have the edge here )

...but anyway, I would (as a DM) not give bard-wannabes the thief HD (anyway, the bard-wannabe might change his mind and stay as a dual-classed fighter/thief).

[manikus]

Statistically, their hp would be 121 at a total of 39 levels.

Their thief skills would be those of a 9th level thief. Hmmm, what are their weapon and armor restrictions? As good as I thief as I recall.

Let's see, 39th level fighter on a statistical average is going to have 145 hp and a much better THAC0, will be attacking twice per round and sweeping most mundane creatures in attack. I guess a better comparison would be a ranger. A 39th level ranger will have 110 hp on statistical average and in other ways will be like a fighter, with the addition of 3 levels of druidic spells and 2 levels of mage spells. They seem kind of broken, too. To be honest, all super hero characters are broken.